Ahhh. Another opportunity for me to post one of my favorite photos taken during the Vietnam War.
Posted on 02/06/2005 6:45:18 AM PST by presidio9
In front of a cheering male audience, two young women wearing only bras and panties throw themselves into a mud-filled plastic kiddie pool and roll around in a wild wrestling match.
At one point a man in the audience raises a water bottle and douses the entwined pair.
At another, a "referee" moves in to break up the scantily clad grapplers.
A young blond lifts her T-shirt to expose her breasts. A brunette turns her back to the camera and exposes her thong undies.
These scenes, taken from 30 photos leaked to the Daily News, could have been snapped at an out-of-control frat party.
But this happened a world away from any American college.
The photos were taken in Camp Bucca, the military prison at Umm Qasr in the hot sands of southern Iraq near the Kuwaiti border.
The women are not coeds but military policewomen who had left their uniforms in a pile not far off.
The men are soldiers, too. Most of them wore T-shirts emblazoned with Army logos, but at least one was still wearing his uniform.
Some were sergeants, including the referee, and some allegedly were drunk.
The photos were taken last Oct. 30, in the same period when enemy detainees were being transferred to Camp Bucca from Abu Ghraib, the prison made notorious by photos of Americans torturing naked Iraqis.
The Camp Bucca pictures document no such abuses.
But they do show what experts called a disconcerting lapse in discipline at a time when Army brass was touting the camp as a model of reform.
"It was basically a goodbye party for those of us who were leaving and a welcome party for those coming in," the alleged referee, Sgt. Emil Ganim of the 160th Military Police Battalion, told The News. "It was a chance for people to blow off some steam before coming home after spending a year in a combat zone."
But one participant described less-benign behavior.
Two sergeants, she said, told her "they had been lending out their room for soldiers to have sex" - a serious infraction of military regulations.
One female soldier, a prison guard with the 160th Military Police Battalion, was photographed baring her breast and showing off her thong panties.
The picture apparently was taken in the room of one of those sergeants, an investigator reported.
The witness told investigators that two high-ranking noncommissioned officers, a first sergeant and a master sergeant, were present. She "noted that these NCOs had been drinking and were noticeably drunk," the report said.
Ganim said American civilians at the camp also participated in the party, and "if anybody had liquor, it was them."
Ganim has since returned to his civilian job as a deputy sheriff in Leon County, Fla.
"It appears that this event was allegedly coordinated by NCOs [sergeants] of the 160th," according to the initial investigation.
One of the soldiers told investigators the mud-wrestling match was underway when she arrived.
"She took off her uniform and joined the other female soldiers that were wrestling," the report says. But "once soldiers started asking for the females to expose themselves [she and two of the other wrestlers] put their uniforms back on and left the area."
But at least one woman was not deterred.
Deanna Allen, a 19-year-old prison guard with the 105th MP Battalion, smiled and lifted her T-shirt. Photos show a man standing close to her and leering at her breasts while another G.I. snaps pictures.
"From what I understand they dared her to do it," said Allen's grandmother, Luci Tomlin, in Black Mountain, N.C. "It was a loose moment. She is a strong-headed young lady. Sometimes she can be a little irrational."
Allen, who is still stationed in Iraq, did not respond to E-mailed questions from The News. She was demoted in rank to private first class.
"A sex party with alcohol that is prohibited would suggest a serious breakdown of military discipline," said Washington-based lawyer Eugene Fidell, a military-justice expert. "Just how it would be handled would be determined by the commander, who has very broad discretion in situations like this.
Fidell said punishments could range from "a good chewing out to loss of rank" for enlisted personnel and "a letter or career-killing transfer" for officers who allowed it to happen.
I don't see what the big deal is. They're having fun. They could step out of wherever they are and get their heads blown off or be kidnapped and have it sawed off alive.
When soldiers start to have sex with each other we have a serious problem. There are a lot of reasons why this is very bad. The sexual politics involved, women getting pregnant and venereal disease can corrupt and destroy our military. This is a serious problem in the navy because women in highly specialized technical positions who have to be removed from ships when they get pregnant.
This has to be stopped.
Oh, is that all? How sweet of you, destroying a hard-earned career for having a beer with the troops. Good grief.
Ahhh. Another opportunity for me to post one of my favorite photos taken during the Vietnam War.
I don't mean to sound callous, but people in the Middle East are not unfamiliar with violence. Open sexuality is another matter. They are more comfortable with murder then they are with sex.
Our soldiers have every right to have fun; they deserve it. But the Middle East is not America. Then again, I think it's foolish to be sending female soldiers to fight in the Middle East in the first place, but that's a debate for another thread.
The last tour we had overseas before my husband retired, there were lots of young people in his group. Our house was their home away from home because most of them were away from home for the first time in their lives and lonely and trying to live every minute. Some of them would get a little off center but it would only take a couple of words to get them back on track. BUT that was during peacetime and nobody's life was threatened. And before everybodey jumps in and says that is the job of the NCOs and senior SGTs who were present, I know that. BUT, just remember, this is the MSM that is reporting this and all of a sudden we believe everything they are reporting?
Now what happens if one of these women come forward and calls rape?
I also think about the wives and girlfriends who are sitting home waiting for their men to come home. Months and months of worrying....going without companionship. These wives and girlfriends may have not been in danger, but worrying about the man you love can wear you down.
My husband risked his life in the Air Force in Viet Nam and he doesn't believe this type of behavior is becoming to the military, either. If they want to behave like wild animals, they could have stayed in the US and gone to a liberal college. No one forced them to take the oath in the military. If you believe this sort of behavior is appropriate in the military, and you would condone that behavior out of your daughters, then I feel sorry for your daughters.
Best comment on the thread, IMHO.
LOL
Here's the real scoop from a retired Navy man:
Stuff like this happens when you put young men and young women in confined quarters for extended periods of time under stressfull circumstances. Obviously, these soldiers weren't on a ship with no place to get out, but they were socially isolated.
I witnessed the transition of all-male crews to mixed gender crews on combat ships. Despite the regulations and punishments for infractions of the fraternization rules, this kind of activity occurs frequently. Biology trumps DoD regs.
I can't count the number of times I had to be officially "shocked" that an 20 year old man and 20 year old woman "got it on" when they found an opportunity.
If the Nation insists on men and women serving together in combat circumstances, we're going to have to accept that episodes like this will happen from time to time.
That said, any number of folks should have stepped up and stopped the picture taking. The old adage "What goes on cruise stays on cruise" wasn't just a male-bonding thing to excuse questionable behavior, it was a way to protect the families back home from hurtful truths.
I was certainly never present during anything like this, but I made a point of leaving immediately if anyone got a camera out at a blowing-off-steam party.
A picture is worth a thousand words.
Followed almost immediately by the stupidest comment on the thread.
If our soldiers were fighting a war in the Netherlands, I'd say this was no big deal. But they are in the Middle East. Heck, this is Iraq. What happens when (if) we're in Iran? Compared to Iran, Iraq is the Netherlands.
I wouldn't care if they were just verbally scolded to be honest. But NCOs aren't suppose to be fraternizing with enlisted personnel anyway. If it was just NCOs doing this OR just enlisted people, I could care less. And it wasn't just having a beer. Things get weird when management gets involved with their subordinates, regardless of the rest of their circumstances and career.
I demand to see all the photos, and not just these puny thumbnails! This could be a set up! We must not pass judgment until all the photos are posted here, so we can fairly determine if these are even US troops. They could be British. We just don't have enough information, Freepers.
Always knew I was in the wrong war. This does not fit my memories of getting drunk and "wrestling in the mud" with some MP's. More's the pity. Talk about a whole new reason for grunts to resent MPs.
It's a symptom of the same disease. The woman in the Abu Grabbi abuse photos was pregnant by her boyfriend who also appeared in the photos. That scandal seriously damaged the image and credibility of the United States. It was caused by a breakdown in military discipline.
Knowing the perverts I have met that are Saudi/Kuwaiti/Quatari and their customs - I do not think they would mind at all. You are almost as uptight as OBL. We are not Muslims. Those kids are Americans and they were off duty. After a year living in primitive conditions they are allowed to have some fun. I guess you have not seen some of the local establishments off base near most CONUS military bases - Most have a concentration of tittie bars within 2-3 miles of the main gate.
Exactly.....well said.
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