Posted on 01/21/2005 6:34:28 AM PST by P-Marlowe
We believe by His grace.
Saved by grace through faith.
But that is not "grace alone."
It's grace AND faith.
Sure enough. It's our passport to Paradise.
But it's issued by God.
No, we are saved by His grace.
So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (Romans 10:17)
Our faith comes from hearing the Word of God and believing it to be true.
That's not what Paul says. "Grace through faith."
Faith can be manipulated, subverted, redefined.
Grace cannot.
Do you believe there can be errors in some Christians' faith? I do.
Do you believe there are errors in God's grace? I don't.
You missed the point of what I said.
But you knew that.
"and believing it to be true."
You cannot believe it's true until faith comes.
Which leads us right back to the beginning.
Since the word of God is everywhere, why do some men hear correctly and some don't? Are some men more righteous, holy, stronger, more pragmatic, clever, pious, richer?
No. Like Lazarus, all men are equally fallen sinners, stone cold dead in sin and trespass. That's WHY we need a Redeemer in the first place.
Why do some hear and some not? Because God gives some the ears to hear Him with and some not.
The Word of God is the Bible. It is not given in any other form.
Corin, you and I have gotten past this. If I missed your point, please explain. I enjoy goofing around with words and responses as much as anyone, but lately I've found straight forward discussion more rewarding
Probably because I've used up all my good jokes and am now forced to steal them from the evo threads. 8~)
"Grace through faith"
"Grace" AND "faith" are in that sentence.
The seed (the word of God) is tossed everywhere. But only God directs the harvest.
"And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand." -- Matthew 3:3-13.
***Faith is only as good as the object it is placed in.***
Actually, this is a critical distinction. Arminians, if they are going to be true to their theology don't place their faith directly and ultimately in the Lord; they place it in their decision to accept the gift. This really is synergism. Those who have true faith, and there are Arminians who are inconsistent in their theology, place their faith solely and directly in a Lord who has already procured their salvation.
In the service of the Lord,
Christian.
No, I was saying I thought you said I was goofing around with words when you said "but you knew that" which implies I'm posting one thing, but meaning another.
Aaaaanyway, "grace through faith" is very different from "grace and faith."
Just look at the differences between Arminians and Calvinists. That's the difference.
If Paul had wanted to say "grace and faith," that's what he would have written.
But the concepts of God saving through His will alone (grace) and of God giving man the evidence of his salvation (faith) are what the Reformers died for.
For someone who allegedly spent so much time as an Arminian, or at least amongst them, you sure don't understand it very well.
Just what Arminian denomination was it where you learned such things? Or should I say "didn't learn?"
That is like saying that Calvinists do not place their faith in Christ, but in unconditional election.
The 'logic' of each system, however, does not thankfully hold since most people accept the theological tenets of their particular system already as saved Christians.
The Gospel of the Grace of God is very simple and direct.
***Just what Arminian denomination was it where you learned such things?***
Must have been the same ones I've attended. I remember one in particular, a small Baptist church in rural SC with my best gal, at age 17.....
Well at least you have an excuse for remembering it wrong. You were distracted. ;-)
Amen.
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