Posted on 01/21/2005 6:34:28 AM PST by P-Marlowe
The words are not in that small piece of Scripture you quoted, but are in other passages. At Pentecost, baptism is taught. In all 10 conversions in Acts, baptism is a central part. Paul himself was baptized to "wash away" his sins. If you look at the teaching of the entire New Testament, baptism is absolutely a part of the Gospel. A person who hears the Word, believes it, repents of their sins, confesses Jesus Christ as the Son of the living God, and is immersed for the remission of their sins has obeyed the Gospel.
This is a very interesting discussion.
My take is that all one needs to do to be saved is put your faith in Jesus believing that by his death on the cross our sins are removed, therefore repenting of sins and receiving new life. BECAUSE of such a salvation we should seek to do his will in everything, therefore will be baptized.
As we farther understand just what we have been saved from we will continue to become more obedient to scriptures and do our best to please Him. I see it as very simple.
It just is not there Period
You have a salvation of works my friend..
God is no respecter of persons, so the salvation preached to one is the salvation preached to all. Acts 2:38 is clear, we are called to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins. The "work" in baptism is being done by God, we are just called to submit to the act. If that bothers you, then that is your decision. I have no problem submitting to the God's will, and it is clear to me that this includes baptism for the remission of sins.
God Bless.
Rom 10:9 "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."
To me that's rather succinct.
That makes five times you've laughed at Romans 9 in the past few months.
I may be redundant in my posts, but your disdain for Paul's clear instructions is more worrisome.
Aw c'mon now Dr. E. You know darn good and well that ftd does not disdain Paul's words.
Since the Bible is the inspired Word of God, these two verses must not contradict each other. They must be in harmony. Correct? Therefore, there must be common teaching in each of these verses. Romans 10:9 mentions confession and belief. Acts 2:38 mentions repentance and baptism for the remission of sins. These two verses together cover everything I mentioned as being required for salvation. So why do you want to cling to one verse and ignore the other?
I don't. It is a work of God to place the need for baptism on ones heart. Christians who are obedient to His call illustrate their belief by following the Lord Jesus in baptism. But as RN stated, if on your way to be baptized you get run over by a train it will not affect your salvation.
As I stated, using "hard cases", such as dying on the way to baptism, does NOT negate clear teaching of the New Testament. Acts 2:38 does not say that baptism illustrates belief, it says that baptism is for the remission of sins.
***I may be redundant in my posts, but your disdain for Paul's clear instructions is more worrisome.***
Perhaps the fault of the redundancy is in your students.
Christian.
Please don't take this as shouting but one of the bizarre ritual around here seem to be thinking God works in all sorts of different ways in all sorts of different circumstances to save individuals. God has special ways in saving children, saving people on desert islands, saving people in the Old Testaments and now making special exceptions when they're not baptized although, you say, it's required. Quite frankly I grow dizzy trying to keep straight the salvation methods of the Arminians.
If God does it for one, He does it for all. This includes those who are baptized and those who are not. God is consistent in His salvation plan and method. God shows no partiality.
Probably because it was my question to you, and I was waiting politely for your answer, which you still haven't provided, except to throw the query back at me.
What makes two Christians different?
Okay, I'll give you my answer just to move the discussion along in hopes of getting an answer from you.
All faith, every degree and morsel and word of it, it given by God alone for His glory and our solace. Thank you, God. And that Trinitarian faith in Jesus Christ is the marker God employs to dispense His saving grace in order to separate the sheep from the wolves. "By grace are ye saved through faith."
Thus faith is the work of the Godly.
"We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers; Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father; Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God. For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake." -- 1 Thessalonians 1:2-5
The differences among believing Trinitarian Christians are explained by an understanding of the life-long process of sanctification. We do not sanctify ourselves. Our every step is given to us by God.
According to Paul, faith is a work of the righteous. We don't get to heaven by our works, i.e. acts of confessions, contrition, obedience, prayer, belief, baptism, desires, motives or good intentions.
We get to heaven for one reason only -- because man is dead in sin, God became man to die in our place and be resurrected by His hand for His glory alone, all ordained by God from before the foundation of the world. We are the grateful recipients of His generous gift, not the cause of this most ultimate miracle.
First of all, I am not Arminian. I claim no name but Christian. Second, I am not making special exceptions, I am just saying that it is up to God to decide when someone is unable to fulfill his commandments. You said God is consistent in His salvation plan and method, that is exactly what I am saying. He is consistent, and to obey the Gospel, that includes being baptized for the remission of sins.
We don't get to heaven by our works...
One of these things is not like the other...Is faith a "work" or is it a "gift?"
One of these things is not like the other...Is faith a "work" or is it a "gift?"
EXACTLY!
Grace is the gift, as was pointed out to me by GeorgeW.Bush three years ago when I was sloppier with words.
We don't get to heaven by our works. And Paul calls faith a work. Faith is the EVIDENCE of God's saving grace. Faith is the Godly work of righteous men.
But only grace saves us. And we can do nothing to motivate, initiate, activate, manipulate or create God's grace.
Salvation is all of Him; and none of us.
You don't get to heaven without faith either.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:18
Faith can be manipulated. Grace cannot.
Faith can be bartered and sold. Grace cannot.
Faith can be misdirected. Grace cannot.
Faith can be subverted. Grace cannot.
"Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." John 6:28-29
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." Matthew 5:16
"Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." Romans 3:27-28
"But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed." Romans 9:31-33
"Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." Romans 11:5-6
"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." Galatians 2:16
"Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." Titus 1:15-16
"This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men." Titus 3:8
"Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works" Hebrews 10:23-24
"But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" Titus 3:4-5
Seems clear to me. Salvation by grace alone through Trinitarian faith in Jesus Christ.
Then why didn't you define it by grace alone here?
Salvation by grace alone through Trinitarian faith in Jesus Christ.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.