Confederate States Of America (2005)

Yahoo Movies ^ | 12/31/04 | Me

[fortheDeclaration]

excellent post!

[fortheDeclaration]

Southron politicians made it clear that the Union was inviolable, that talk of secession was treason, and that any attempt to secede would be resisted with the utmost violence.

What?

Aren't the people of Wisconsin sovereign?

[fortheDeclaration]

IMHO, it was Lincoln's election and his dedication to protectionist tarrifs and the Morril Tarrif that were the final nail in the coffin that caused the seccessation of the Southern states. Lincoln promised that he would send in troops and FORCE states to pay the tariff if they refused. It was extremely unfair to force the south to pay these taxes that were used for public works projects in the north.

Certainly the tarrif issue was a sore point, but it was slavery that the key issue.

As for sending in troops to make the South 'pay'that was what the Constitution stated the States had to do.

No different then sending in troops to enforce the furgitive slave act.

[fortheDeclaration]

Two, there was a provisional attempt to begin negotiating these matters, which was blocked by Lincoln. He did not want to be seen to give the slightest recognition to the Southern States except on their bellies. Lincoln's policy was that there was to be no discussion with the Southern States.

There was nothing to discuss!

He told them their constitutional rights would be protected.

He pled them not to force his hand.

They thought they could get away with anything.

They underestimated the North's resolve to defend the Constitution.

[groanup]

Easily amused, I see. But you're wise to stay out of the discussion.

Oh no, my knowledge doesn't compare, my wisdom is far superior.

[fortheDeclaration]

Because they weren't defending. They were invading.

They invaded because the federal gov't was attacked.

The Consititution states that no state has a right to form a confederation with another state or states.

Section 10. No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation;

The Confederate Constitition said the same thing.

[groanup]

Davis knew what he was doing. He just didn't expect the outcome.

You knew him? How old are you?

[groanup]

On the side of the Union.

You knew him? How old are you?

[groanup]

Excellent post.

Yes I know. He reminds me of one also. He thinks, for some reason, that everyone but he is a racist slaver. Never mind that the Southern people love the individuals of the black race and the Nothern people loved the race but hated the individuals. Sort of reminds you of a group think kind of thing.

[groanup]

They invaded because the federal gov't was attacked.

So you wouldn't attack if a foreign force had fortifications in your back yard? What kind of soldier are you?

[groanup]

They underestimated the North's resolve to defend the Constitution

Ha, ha, ha, hahahahahaha, ha, ha, ha, ha, are you serious?

[groanup]

And when the 'People'want to change a tyrannical gov't they always have the moral right to revolt, not to secede

There you go again, advocating violence. The Southern states had no revolt in mind. Do you think they wanted to go in and takeover Washington? You probably do if you were educated anywhere in the North in a goverment school. But, of course, if that is the case, you have more problems than can be solved by debate.

[af_vet_rr]

but it was slavery that the key issue.

If it was the key issue, then why did so many Christians fight for its continuation? That may sound like an off-beat question, but I've always looked at how important religion was at that time, and the fact that most Southerners didn't own slaves, and it leads me away from slavery being the key issue. Granted, many people who called themselves Christian seemed to have no problem enslaving their fellow Christians, and those sames types are around even now...they pretend to act like Christians, but don't live their lives like it.

It is definitely an interesting subject..

[Blood of Tyrants]

Jeez, can you not let go of it? Lincoln himself opposed slavery but he had absolutely NO PLANS to end it when he was running for president or after the war started! How could the PRIMARY reason have been slavery when Lincoln had no plans to end it?

[fortheDeclaration]

The difference between the North and South of that period was that even if the Northerner did not love the black man, he did not think he had a right to live of of his labor.

[fortheDeclaration]

They invaded because the federal gov't was attacked. So you wouldn't attack if a foreign force had fortifications in your back yard? What kind of soldier are you?

It wasn't a foreign force, it was built to protect the state, that is why its guns were pointed outward toward the sea, not at the harbor.

[fortheDeclaration]

Exactly.

The North did not believe the South would attempt to leave, and the South did not believe the North would attempt to make them stay.

Both sides underestimated the resolve of the other.

[groanup]

No, actually they attempted to leave.

No actually they left. Check your encyclopedia.

Historically we never had a break in the nation's history as a nation.

You must not have read history. We had a war that was predicated on half of the country declaring its independence from the other half.

We had a Civil War.

More properly called the War of Northern Aggression. And we almost won it despite being outnumbered 5 to 1 and be an agrarian, peaceful society vs. a northern industrial war machine. Many British observers considered our troops to be the greatest warriors to ever take to horseback in all recorded history.

But we were never two nations.

Yes we were. Again, go read your history books. At the time there was a country called the Confederate States of America. It had its own government, currency, military, and trash collectors. DUH!

So when do you and your neo-confederate buddies celebrate the birth of the Confederate States of America?

We don't celebrate the birth of a nation that no longer exists. We celebrate the sacrafices of those who came before us and we do it on April 26, May 10, May 30, and June 3. The Georgia State Government takes a day off on April 26. People like you and NS would not have the souls of those people remembered for their love of freedom but only for their love of slavery. 99 out of 100 of those people who died had no slaves nor had any family who had slaves. So the war was about what?

[fortheDeclaration]

And when the 'People'want to change a tyrannical gov't they always have the moral right to revolt, not to secede There you go again, advocating violence. The Southern states had no revolt in mind. Do you think they wanted to go in and takeover Washington? You probably do if you were educated anywhere in the North in a goverment school. But, of course, if that is the case, you have more problems than can be solved by debate.

When you throw off a gov't it usually leads to violence.

When you revolt, you are appealing to bullets instead of ballots, the very thing Lincoln wanted to prove was not necessary in a republican form of gov't.

[groanup]

The difference between the North and South of that period was that even if the Northerner did not love the black man, he did not think he had a right to live of of his labor.

Then why did New Yorkers (the last I checked this was a very northern state) riot when Lincoln (the racist) issue the Emancipation Proclamation?