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Endless complaints. |
Posted on 12/31/2004 2:21:30 PM PST by Caipirabob
What's wrong about this photo? Or if you're a true-born Southerner, what's right?
While scanning through some of the up and coming movies in 2005, I ran across this intriguing title; "CSA: Confederate States of America (2005)". It's an "alternate universe" take on what would the country be like had the South won the civil war.
Stars with bars:
Suffice to say anything from Hollywood on this topic is sure to to bring about all sorts of controversial ideas and discussions. I was surprised that they are approaching such subject matter, and I'm more than a little interested.
Some things are better left dead in the past:
For myself, I was more than pleased with the homage paid to General "Stonewall" Jackson in Turner's "Gods and Generals". Like him, I should have like to believe that the South would have been compelled to end slavery out of Christian dignity rather than continue to enslave their brothers of the freedom that belong equally to all men. Obviously it didn't happen that way.
Would I fight for a South that believed in Slavery today? I have to ask first, would I know any better back then? I don't know. I honestly don't know. My pride for my South and my heritage would have most likely doomed me as it did so many others. I won't skirt the issue, in all likelyhood, slavery may have been an afterthought. Had they been the staple of what I considered property, I possibly would have already been past the point of moral struggle on the point and preparing to kill Northern invaders.
Compelling story or KKK wet dream?:
So what do I feel about this? The photo above nearly brings me to tears, as I highly respect Abraham Lincoln. I don't care if they kick me out of the South. Imagine if GW was in prayer over what to do about a seperatist leftist California. That's how I imagine Lincoln. A great man. I wonder sometimes what my family would have been like today. How many more of us would there be? Would we have held onto the property and prosperity that sustained them before the war? Would I have double the amount of family in the area? How many would I have had to cook for last week for Christmas? Would I have needed to make more "Pate De Fois Gras"?
Well, dunno about that either. Depending on what the previous for this movie are like, I may or may not see it. If they portray it as the United Confederacy of the KKK I won't be attending.
This generation of our clan speaks some 5 languages in addition to English, those being of recent immigrants to this nation. All of them are good Americans. I believe the south would have succombed to the same forces that affected the North. Immigration, war, economics and other huma forces that have changed the map of the world since history began.
Whatever. At least in this alternate universe, it's safe for me to believe that we would have grown to be the benevolent and humane South that I know it is in my heart. I can believe that slavery would have died shortly before or after that lost victory. I can believe that Southern gentlemen would have served the world as the model for behavior. In my alternate universe, it's ok that Spock has a beard. It's my alternate universe after all, it can be what I want.
At any rate, I lived up North for many years. Wonderful people and difficult people. I will always sing their praises as a land full of beautiful Italian girls, maple syrup and Birch beer. My uncle ribbed us once before we left on how we were going up North to live "with all the Yankees". Afterwards I always refered to him as royalty. He is, really. He's "King of the Rednecks". I suppose I'm his court jester.
So what do you think of this movie?
His name remains associated with freedom & crushing tyrants.This particular statement ranks up there with some of Yogi's Berra's most funny Yogi-isms lol:
Mrs. Berra: "I took [middle son] Tim to see Doctor Zhivago."
Yogi: "What the hell's wrong with him now?"
Ignoring the fact that the Supreme Court is not in a position to pass on sovereign acts, which are ultra vires all courts since the People, when they sit as Sovereign, constitute a Court of their own, what exactly did the People do -- what could they do -- that "broke the[ir] law"?
Your disingenuousness is showing again. We've seen the paper trail, and it leads to Lincoln's door.
Knock it off. You must think everyone on this thread is your personal chump.
"It-was-all-about-slavery!" bump.
Now they're telling us the tariff had nothing to do with it, either.
Well, not exactly telling us that......just sort of hinting dishonestly, as loudly as they can without having to sign anything.
LOL! You expect us to believe Chase's publicly announced reasons for ducking a political hot potato like trying Jeff Davis for his life on a charge of high treason? Bwahaha!
Let's start with reality number one, as a basis of discussion: It would have been a spectacular political show-trial, right up there with the Nuremberg trials, and it would have sucked all the air out of the room for at least six months and more probably a year, just like Clinton's and Johnson's impeachment trials did.
Reality number two was, if they'd found him guilty and hanged him, they'd have created a martyr. And they'd likely split the Black Republicans down the middle while trying to make up their minds whether to hang him or not, with Beast Butler leading the foamers screaming for Davis's blood and the smart guys trying to soft-pedal everything.
Ah, so that's the problem, you are unable to read english!
And I thought you were going to come back with a statement that the South losing the war was simply a logical fallacy.
Admittingly W.Virgina did raise some problems.
However, since Virgina was in revolt, those who were loyal to the Union needed to be protected.
What W.Virgina does show is the logical outcome of allowing secession as a means of dealing with political disagreements.
Leaving the Union was overthrowing the Constitution, the very reason the gov't had been founded.
The Southern states were members of the Union, they were not part of a colonial system.
It appears that you suffer from the problem of projection in addition to bad grammar. The statement "The South lost the war-get over it!" is not a coherent sentence but rather two disconnected phrases strung together by an improperly used hyphen. Not that it matters any to you, seeing as you are only here to #3inflame and spew #3bile rather than discuss anything material to the subject of this thread.
I've seen your paper trail and the conclusions that you've jumped to. It was all highly amusing.
Knock it off. You must think everyone on this thread is your personal chump.
Not my personal chump. You're everybody's chump.
Ignoring for a moment the nonsense in the first part of your statement, they violated the Constitution in their acts of unilateral secession.
Well, I suppose we could believe your conspiracy theories.
Let's start with reality number one, as a basis of discussion: It would have been a spectacular political show-trial, right up there with the Nuremberg trials, and it would have sucked all the air out of the room for at least six months and more probably a year, just like Clinton's and Johnson's impeachment trials did.
That wasn't the age of CourtTV. The Johnson impeachment, from House vote to acquittal was only 10 weeks. The Military Commission for the Lincoln trial ran only 9 weeks before execution. A Davis trial would have been over in a matter of a few months.
Reality number two was, if they'd found him guilty and hanged him, they'd have created a martyr. And they'd likely split the Black Republicans down the middle while trying to make up their minds whether to hang him or not, with Beast Butler leading the foamers screaming for Davis's blood and the smart guys trying to soft-pedal everything.
I doubt that they would have hanged him. Jail in Fort Jefferson, something like that.
So in addition to your inability to understand clear english, we can add pomposity as well.
Now back up and prove it's nonsense.
..... they violated the Constitution in their acts of unilateral secession.
No, they didn't. Make a treaty, unmake a treaty -- a sovereign isn't someone a judge can overrule.
But you are recalcitrant and slothful, so let's try it this way:
Who is the sovereign of the United States of America? What is his name, where does he live?
To put it a little more bluntly: Who's your daddy, servile belly-crawler? Who do you crawl for?
Ad hominem. Liberal discourse.
Yeah, like its existence. We wouldn't have to put up with Bobby Byrd if Lincoln hadn't pulled his shenanigans.
However, since Virgina was in revolt, those who were loyal to the Union needed to be protected.
Is that why Lincoln partitioned all those other States? Oh, wait -- he didn't. There goes that argument.
What W.Virgina does show is the logical outcome of allowing secession as a means of dealing with political disagreements.
Read the Constitution. Read The Federalist.
States are the sovereign political entities that embody the People. Counties are not. A rump convention isn't a State (the Unionists in Virginia lost the secession issue by 3:1), but Lincoln interposed the U.S. Army and said it was. In so doing he violated Article IV of the Constitution himself.
Get it straight. The seceding States did not violate the Constitution. They withdrew from the Union and formed their own federation. Lincoln, however, did violate the Constitution -- repeatedly. And never more blatantly than when he used the Army and a political fiction to partition Virginia.
Get used to this: At some point, you're going to have to admit that Lincoln was engaged in political gamesmanship at the highest level, enabled by war and greased by the blood of the People.
Well, then, Mr. Illicit Minor, does that mean that a Jeff Davis trial would not have sucked all the air out of the room and would not have been a political hot potato?
Speak up. Signify to us. Why didn't Chief Justice Salmon Chase lend his authority to a trial of Jefferson Davis?
Why didn't they try Davis for high treason? The war had lasted four years. There were nearly a million dead. Where's Jeff Davis's trial?
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