Confederate States Of America (2005)

Yahoo Movies ^ | 12/31/04 | Me

[M. Espinola]

His name remains associated with freedom & crushing tyrants. :)

[M. Espinola]

I noticed another mind boggling statement by one of those from the land of historical fantasies.

"The Confederacy fired on that fort because the Union was baasically told to leave Confederate land.."

This particular statement ranks up there with some of Yogi's Berra's most funny Yogi-isms lol:

But Yogi knows what he is saying for a laugh :)

“Ninety percent of the game is half mental.”

“You can observe a lot by watching.”

"I Really Didn't Say Everything I Said!"

---

Yogi: "Where have you been?"

Mrs. Berra: "I took [middle son] Tim to see Doctor Zhivago."

Yogi: "What the hell's wrong with him now?"

[lentulusgracchus]

Their actions violated the Constitution, as the Supreme Court found in Texas v White. Hardly a 'completely irrelevant, subsidiary, and totally subordinate law'.

Ignoring the fact that the Supreme Court is not in a position to pass on sovereign acts, which are ultra vires all courts since the People, when they sit as Sovereign, constitute a Court of their own, what exactly did the People do -- what could they do -- that "broke the[ir] law"?

[lentulusgracchus]

Interesting that you blame it on Lincoln when the President has no constitutional role in creating a state.

Your disingenuousness is showing again. We've seen the paper trail, and it leads to Lincoln's door.

Knock it off. You must think everyone on this thread is your personal chump.

[lentulusgracchus]

When a complete, total, instant military victory will not yield the result for which the war is claimed to be fought, that claimed reason cannot be valid.

"It-was-all-about-slavery!" bump.

Now they're telling us the tariff had nothing to do with it, either.

Well, not exactly telling us that......just sort of hinting dishonestly, as loudly as they can without having to sign anything.

[lentulusgracchus]

Having been banned from public office because of his participation in the rebellion, Chief Justice Chase believed that additional trial and punishment would violate Davis' constitutional protections against double jeopardy and he made it clear that he would vote against conviction for that reason.

LOL! You expect us to believe Chase's publicly announced reasons for ducking a political hot potato like trying Jeff Davis for his life on a charge of high treason? Bwahaha!

Let's start with reality number one, as a basis of discussion: It would have been a spectacular political show-trial, right up there with the Nuremberg trials, and it would have sucked all the air out of the room for at least six months and more probably a year, just like Clinton's and Johnson's impeachment trials did.

Reality number two was, if they'd found him guilty and hanged him, they'd have created a martyr. And they'd likely split the Black Republicans down the middle while trying to make up their minds whether to hang him or not, with Beast Butler leading the foamers screaming for Davis's blood and the smart guys trying to soft-pedal everything.

[fortheDeclaration]

The South lost the war-get over it! Coherent enough? That's not even a properly phrased sentence, so no.

Ah, so that's the problem, you are unable to read english!

And I thought you were going to come back with a statement that the South losing the war was simply a logical fallacy.

[fortheDeclaration]

If the secession of the south was not lawful, than the creation of West Virginia was an extraconstitutional, impeachable act by an out of control dictator.

Admittingly W.Virgina did raise some problems.

However, since Virgina was in revolt, those who were loyal to the Union needed to be protected.

What W.Virgina does show is the logical outcome of allowing secession as a means of dealing with political disagreements.

[fortheDeclaration]

The South did not intend to overthrow the government in Washington,

Leaving the Union was overthrowing the Constitution, the very reason the gov't had been founded.

[fortheDeclaration]

as per the Rhodesian Unilateral Declaration of Independence of 1965 from the British Empire, or that of India and Israel from their previous colonial master.

The Southern states were members of the Union, they were not part of a colonial system.

[GOPcapitalist]

Ah, so that's the problem, you are unable to read english!

It appears that you suffer from the problem of projection in addition to bad grammar. The statement "The South lost the war-get over it!" is not a coherent sentence but rather two disconnected phrases strung together by an improperly used hyphen. Not that it matters any to you, seeing as you are only here to #3inflame and spew #3bile rather than discuss anything material to the subject of this thread.

[Non-Sequitur]

We've seen the paper trail, and it leads to Lincoln's door.

I've seen your paper trail and the conclusions that you've jumped to. It was all highly amusing.

Knock it off. You must think everyone on this thread is your personal chump.

Not my personal chump. You're everybody's chump.

[Non-Sequitur]

Ignoring the fact that the Supreme Court is not in a position to pass on sovereign acts, which are ultra vires all courts since the People, when they sit as Sovereign, constitute a Court of their own, what exactly did the People do -- what could they do -- that "broke the[ir] law"?

Ignoring for a moment the nonsense in the first part of your statement, they violated the Constitution in their acts of unilateral secession.

[Non-Sequitur]

LOL! You expect us to believe Chase's publicly announced reasons for ducking a political hot potato like trying Jeff Davis for his life on a charge of high treason? Bwahaha!

Well, I suppose we could believe your conspiracy theories.

Let's start with reality number one, as a basis of discussion: It would have been a spectacular political show-trial, right up there with the Nuremberg trials, and it would have sucked all the air out of the room for at least six months and more probably a year, just like Clinton's and Johnson's impeachment trials did.

That wasn't the age of CourtTV. The Johnson impeachment, from House vote to acquittal was only 10 weeks. The Military Commission for the Lincoln trial ran only 9 weeks before execution. A Davis trial would have been over in a matter of a few months.

Reality number two was, if they'd found him guilty and hanged him, they'd have created a martyr. And they'd likely split the Black Republicans down the middle while trying to make up their minds whether to hang him or not, with Beast Butler leading the foamers screaming for Davis's blood and the smart guys trying to soft-pedal everything.

I doubt that they would have hanged him. Jail in Fort Jefferson, something like that.

[fortheDeclaration]

So in addition to your inability to understand clear english, we can add pomposity as well.

[M. Espinola]

Excellent point, and bloody obvious to the normal mind.

[lentulusgracchus]

Ignoring for a moment the nonsense in the first part of your statement,.....

Now back up and prove it's nonsense.

..... they violated the Constitution in their acts of unilateral secession.

No, they didn't. Make a treaty, unmake a treaty -- a sovereign isn't someone a judge can overrule.

But you are recalcitrant and slothful, so let's try it this way:

Who is the sovereign of the United States of America? What is his name, where does he live?

To put it a little more bluntly: Who's your daddy, servile belly-crawler? Who do you crawl for?

[lentulusgracchus]

So in addition to your inability to understand clear english, we can add pomposity as well.

Ad hominem. Liberal discourse.

[lentulusgracchus]

Admittingly W.Virgina did raise some problems.

Yeah, like its existence. We wouldn't have to put up with Bobby Byrd if Lincoln hadn't pulled his shenanigans.

However, since Virgina was in revolt, those who were loyal to the Union needed to be protected.

Is that why Lincoln partitioned all those other States? Oh, wait -- he didn't. There goes that argument.

What W.Virgina does show is the logical outcome of allowing secession as a means of dealing with political disagreements.

Read the Constitution. Read The Federalist.

States are the sovereign political entities that embody the People. Counties are not. A rump convention isn't a State (the Unionists in Virginia lost the secession issue by 3:1), but Lincoln interposed the U.S. Army and said it was. In so doing he violated Article IV of the Constitution himself.

Get it straight. The seceding States did not violate the Constitution. They withdrew from the Union and formed their own federation. Lincoln, however, did violate the Constitution -- repeatedly. And never more blatantly than when he used the Army and a political fiction to partition Virginia.

Get used to this: At some point, you're going to have to admit that Lincoln was engaged in political gamesmanship at the highest level, enabled by war and greased by the blood of the People.

[lentulusgracchus]

A Davis trial would have been over in a matter of a few months.

Well, then, Mr. Illicit Minor, does that mean that a Jeff Davis trial would not have sucked all the air out of the room and would not have been a political hot potato?

Speak up. Signify to us. Why didn't Chief Justice Salmon Chase lend his authority to a trial of Jefferson Davis?

Why didn't they try Davis for high treason? The war had lasted four years. There were nearly a million dead. Where's Jeff Davis's trial?