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Endless complaints. |
Posted on 12/31/2004 2:21:30 PM PST by Caipirabob
What's wrong about this photo? Or if you're a true-born Southerner, what's right?
While scanning through some of the up and coming movies in 2005, I ran across this intriguing title; "CSA: Confederate States of America (2005)". It's an "alternate universe" take on what would the country be like had the South won the civil war.
Stars with bars:
Suffice to say anything from Hollywood on this topic is sure to to bring about all sorts of controversial ideas and discussions. I was surprised that they are approaching such subject matter, and I'm more than a little interested.
Some things are better left dead in the past:
For myself, I was more than pleased with the homage paid to General "Stonewall" Jackson in Turner's "Gods and Generals". Like him, I should have like to believe that the South would have been compelled to end slavery out of Christian dignity rather than continue to enslave their brothers of the freedom that belong equally to all men. Obviously it didn't happen that way.
Would I fight for a South that believed in Slavery today? I have to ask first, would I know any better back then? I don't know. I honestly don't know. My pride for my South and my heritage would have most likely doomed me as it did so many others. I won't skirt the issue, in all likelyhood, slavery may have been an afterthought. Had they been the staple of what I considered property, I possibly would have already been past the point of moral struggle on the point and preparing to kill Northern invaders.
Compelling story or KKK wet dream?:
So what do I feel about this? The photo above nearly brings me to tears, as I highly respect Abraham Lincoln. I don't care if they kick me out of the South. Imagine if GW was in prayer over what to do about a seperatist leftist California. That's how I imagine Lincoln. A great man. I wonder sometimes what my family would have been like today. How many more of us would there be? Would we have held onto the property and prosperity that sustained them before the war? Would I have double the amount of family in the area? How many would I have had to cook for last week for Christmas? Would I have needed to make more "Pate De Fois Gras"?
Well, dunno about that either. Depending on what the previous for this movie are like, I may or may not see it. If they portray it as the United Confederacy of the KKK I won't be attending.
This generation of our clan speaks some 5 languages in addition to English, those being of recent immigrants to this nation. All of them are good Americans. I believe the south would have succombed to the same forces that affected the North. Immigration, war, economics and other huma forces that have changed the map of the world since history began.
Whatever. At least in this alternate universe, it's safe for me to believe that we would have grown to be the benevolent and humane South that I know it is in my heart. I can believe that slavery would have died shortly before or after that lost victory. I can believe that Southern gentlemen would have served the world as the model for behavior. In my alternate universe, it's ok that Spock has a beard. It's my alternate universe after all, it can be what I want.
At any rate, I lived up North for many years. Wonderful people and difficult people. I will always sing their praises as a land full of beautiful Italian girls, maple syrup and Birch beer. My uncle ribbed us once before we left on how we were going up North to live "with all the Yankees". Afterwards I always refered to him as royalty. He is, really. He's "King of the Rednecks". I suppose I'm his court jester.
So what do you think of this movie?
As usual, you cannot actually refute anything he wrote in his post, so you resort to name-calling.
Posts like this really make me question whether you have a firm grip on reality.
Seriously, do you truly believe that the average northerner is more racist than a KKK member?
when they talk about NORTHERN de facto SEGREGATION & RACISM, suddenly you damnyankees don't approve any more.
could it be that DE FACTO segregation in DIXIE was TERRIBLE (and JUST HAD to be ended by spending TENS of MILLIONS of taxpayers dollars, to bus NON-white kids all over the south & midwestern states.) because it was IN dixie AND
northern DE FACTO SEGREGATION is PERFECTLY FINE (in damnyankee eyes) because it is practiced IN damnyankeeland?
this is just ANOTHER example of you damnyankees being HYPOCRYTES!
once again, should we send you southerners to teach you how to DESEGREGATE NORTHERN SCHOOLS????
free dixie,sw
free dixiei,sw
WORSE??? i can't say, as BOTH are MISERABLE excuses for persons.
damnyankees are HATERS. if they weren't so busy HATING & LOOKING DOWN ON southerners/the southland, they'd be some other kind of BIGOT!
free dixie,sw
Assuming facts not in evidence.
could it be that DE FACTO segregation in DIXIE was TERRIBLE (and JUST HAD to be ended by spending TENS of MILLIONS of taxpayers dollars, to bus NON-white kids all over the south & midwestern states.) because it was IN dixie
Segregation in this country existed due to laws that separated people based on race when it came to schooling, residence etc. Once those laws were overturned, segregation ended. In this country today, segregation by law no longer exists.
northern DE FACTO SEGREGATION is PERFECTLY FINE (in damnyankee eyes) because it is practiced IN damnyankeeland?
You have still not given any type of definition as to what you consider de facto segregation. Is a family reunion "de facto segregation?" Give me an example, just one, of unlawful segregation that goes on in this country today.
once again, should we send you southerners to teach you how to DESEGREGATE NORTHERN SCHOOLS????
Please give one example of a segregated school in the USA today. Just one.
Your definition of "Damnyankee" is so broad as to encompass anyone who disagrees with your desire to break apart this country. Is there a single person who disagrees with you when it comes to the establishment of a "free dixie" who does not qualify as a "damnyankee?"
damnyankees are HATERS. if they weren't so busy HATING & LOOKING DOWN ON southerners/the southland, they'd be some other kind of BIGOT!
Your persecution complex aside, I regret to inform you that very, very few people in the North have strong opinions on the South, one way or the other. Other than a few effete snobs on the upper-west side, most people really only think about the South when it is time to pick a place to go for vacation.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but most people in the North simply do not care.
the damnyankee is A LEARNED, rather than in-born, PREJUDICE against dixie, dixie's flags, dixie's hero-martyrs,dixie's memorials, dixie's institutions & dixie's PEOPLE.
TRUTH is, the damnyankee hates ALL of US!
SOME, but not even most, of the north's population are DAMNYANKEES. the rest are COPPERHEADS, NEUTRALS or just "northernborns".
free dixie,sw
the damnyankee is A LEARNED, rather than in-born, PREJUDICE against dixie, dixie's flags, dixie's hero-martyrs,dixie's memorials, dixie's institutions & dixie's PEOPLE.
TRUTH is, the damnyankee hates ALL of US!
SOME, but not even most, of the north's population are DAMNYANKEES. the rest are COPPERHEADS, NEUTRALS or just "northernborns".
free dixie,sw
fyi, a PUBLIC ACCOMMADATION is ANYPLACE which is OPEN to the PUBLIC, as a result of taxpayers funds being used "in any way" to operate/manage/fund/sponsor that public accommodation OR which SAYS it is a PUBLIC ACCOMMADATION.
"family reunions" are NOT public accommodations.
OTOH, SCHOOLS are PUBLIC ACCOMMADATIONS & federal courts ASSURRED that dixie schools, which had DE FACTO segregation, were DE-segregated by federal court order.
northern PUBLIC SCHOOLS, which were similarly DE FACTO SEGREGATED, remained SEGREGATED.
free dixie,sw
Like I said, very, very few Northerners have any strong feelings about the South or its people.
However, many people in the North do not like the CSA flag, since today it is rightfully associated with racists and hate groups. It is sort of like the Swastika. At one time, that was a neutral symbol. However, its most recent association is with not-very-nice people. The Stars-and-bars fall into the same category.
As for things like disliking leaders of the CSA, what do you expect from people descended from Union-supporters? Do you revere Sherman, Grant and Lincoln? Of course not. So why do you expect a New England Yankee or a Kansas Jayhawker whose ancestors died in the Civil War to revere, or even like, Jackson, Lee or Davis?
Okay. Well, that does not go on in the USA anymore, except in very rare cases. The DOJ is quick to sue any time such behavior occurs.
OTOH, SCHOOLS are PUBLIC ACCOMMADATIONS & federal courts ASSURRED that dixie schools, which had DE FACTO segregation, were DE-segregated by federal court order.
Such segregation was outlawed in the North, too. Just off the top of my head, I know of cases in Massachusetts, Michigan, Kansas and Missouri in the 60's and 70's where school districts were forced to change their school assignment procedures, re-draw district lines and/or engage in bussing. Desegregation in many other places in the North was not necessary due to the fact that segregation never actually occurred in some Northern states. I am not aware, however, of any Southern states that did not practice segregation up until the 1960's.
So, your claim that unlawful segregation goes on in Northern schools to this day is false.
our bloodstained & tattered dixie blattleflag is "associated with not very nice people" ONLY in the MINDS OF BIGOTS & IGNORANT persons.
the CROSS & the flag of the USA are the MOST PROMINENT SYMBOLS of the KKK, skinheads & the NEO-facsists.are now, always have been.
FYI, "the Stars & Bars" is NOT the BATTLEFLAG. (pardon me but you IGNORANCE of FACTS is showing.) the S&B looks NOTHING like the BATTLEFLAG.
free dixie,sw
rotflmRao!
free dixiei,sw
rotflmRao!
free dixie,sw
And that would be another non-sequitur, as well as evidence that you don't have a clue what you're talking about. The entire concept of a logical fallacy pertains to errors within the construct of an argument that exist INDEPENDENT of that argument's content or the truth of its premises. As you have failed to demonstrate any necessary connection between your so-called "ethical reasoning" to the independent concept of argumentation's design, it may be dismissed as a non-sequitur.
That said, even your grasp on supposed "ethical reasoning" is poor, mac. There is no inherent ethical obligation of me or anybody else to expand or apply an argument anywhere beyond its immediate and identified object. That it could theoretically be expanded elsewhere is only noteworthy in itself for a separate topic of discussion that has absolutely no determinant bearing upon the previously identified object of the original argument. In short, your doctrine of "fairness" has no inherent nature in what is truly "fair" or what is ethically obliged. In reality it is just another misapplied and artificial construct of convenience used to justify a tu quoque, and thus fallacious, argument.
So, when one sees this scene, only a bigot or ignorant person would associate the CSA battleflag with racism?
If we're talking about unlawful segregation in the North, I never claimed that it never happened.
However, it occurred far less than in the South and does not occur today.
You have failed to come up with even one example of segregation in Northern schools. All I'm asking for is one.
Richard F. Bensel conducted a scholarly comparison for several categories of state power in the union and the confederacy in his book "Yankee Leviathan." From his summary chart on p. 182:
The North was worse in 18 categories
The South was worse in 13 categories
The remaining 11 categories were marked neither either by lack of measures to compare or being indeterminate
It is of note that the North was worse on virtually every category of fiscal policy measured: nationalization of currency, financial market regulation, legal tender notes, treasury debts, homesteads, pensions, national banks, and tariffs. The south was worse in only two fiscal policies: income distribution and domestic price controls.
Stop playing games and deal with the central issue.
The tu quoquery of you and non-seq aside, the central and original issue was Lincoln's abuses of power. The only games that were ever played to dance around it were of a tu quoque nature and, as noted, you and non-seq were the ones who played them.
And yet you've failed to demonstrate that Davis "stretched" his constitution anywhere near the degree that Lincoln did. Take the prime example of habeas corpus again. Lincoln stretched his constitution there so far that he was unilaterally suspending habeas corpus all over the place for two straight years before Congress ever authorized it. Davis, OTOH, went to Congress from the very beginning and got them to approve the suspension, leaving no doubt to its constitutionality.
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