Free Republic
Browse · Search
Smoky Backroom
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Southern pride rallies 'round flag
The Washington Times ^ | June 27, 2004 | Robert Stacy McCain

Posted on 06/27/2004 12:37:31 PM PDT by VRWCer

Edited on 07/12/2004 4:16:50 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]


(Excerpt) Read more at washtimes.com ...


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: confederateflag; dixie; dixielist; ga; georgiaflag; scv; stateflag
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 141-160161-180181-200 ... 321-324 next last
To: Colt .45
As to your other assertions, you don't know squat about what the CBF means, you only believe what you're told by the PC crowd. You make a good little PC puppet.

And we're back to ad hominem again. I could just as easily say that you don't know squat about what the CBF means, you only believe what you're told by the feeble, shabby old men who still mumble upon about the lost glories of a discredited age of tyranny and savagery. Neither of these assertions, however, is conducive to discourse.

161 posted on 07/01/2004 6:33:44 PM PDT by SedVictaCatoni (Forgot the taste of bread? Ate only meat? Gollum invented the Atkins diet.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 160 | View Replies]

To: SedVictaCatoni; Colt .45; Gianni
[SedVictaCatoni] Most of the histories I've read have stated that the South began the war when the Confederate state governments tried to seize United States property and began shelling it. You must have access to the lost accounts of Fort Sumter firing on Charleston. Will wonders never cease.

General Meigs seemed to know about the start of the war on April 10, 1861. Inquiry at the Executive Mansion and State Department turned up no copy of the orders. The President and State ran this operation and cut the Navy and War Departments out of the loop.

"THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF THE WAR"
General M.C. Meigs, April 10, 1861

OFFICIAL RECORDS, Volume 1, Series 1

Page 368

Honorable WM. H. SEWARD, Secretary of State:

DEAR SIR: By great exertions, within less than six days from the time the subject was broached in the office of the President, a war steamer sails from this port; and the Atlantic, built under contract to be at the service of the United States in case of war, will follow this afternoon with 500 troops, of which one company is sappers and miners, one a mounted battery. The Illinois will follow on Monday with the stores which the Atlantic could not hold.

While the mere throwing of a few men into Fort Pickens may seem a small operation, the opening of a campaign is a great one.

Unless this moment is supported by ample supplies and followed up by the Navy it will be a failure. This is the beginning of the war which every statesman and soldier has foreseen since the passage of the South Carolina ordinance of secession. You will find the Army and the navy clogged at the head with men, excellent patriotic men, men who were soldiers and sailors forty years ago, but who now merely keep active men out of the places in which they could serve the country.

If you call out volunteers you have no general to command. The general born, not made, is yet to be found who is to govern the great army which is to save the country, if saved it can be. Colonel Keyes has shown intelligence, zeal, activity, and I look for a high future for him.

England took six months to get a soldier to the Crimea. We were from May to September in getting General Taylor before Monterey. Let us be supported; we got to serve our country, and our country should not neglect us or leave us to be strangled in tape, however red.

Respectfully,

M. C. MEIGS.

U. S. TROOP-SHIP ATLANTIC,

Lat. 32^13', Long. 74^49'15'', April 10, 1861.


Page 441

Washington, D. C., February 27, 1865.

Bvt. Brigadier General E. D. TOWNSEND,

Assistant Adjutant-General, War Department:

MY DEAR GENERAL: The Navy Department has no copy of the instructions to D. D. Porter and other naval officers under which they co-operated with the expedition of April, 1861, to re-enforce Fort Pickens.

The President has none, and they have applied to me. My copies, I think, I placed in Hartsuff's hands. He was adjutant of the expedition.

Please forward the inclosed note to him, and if you have copies let me have for the Navy Department a copy of the President's order to Porter and to other naval officers. Also of the order to Colonel Brown, which required all naval officers to aid him.

General Scott knew of the expedition and its orders; and you were acting confidentially with him and may have had custody of those orders, which were kept secret even from the Secretaries of War and Navy, I believe.

Yours, truly,

M. C. MEIGS,

Quartermaster-General, Brevet Major-General.

QUARTERMASTER-GENERAL'S OFFICE,


Washington City, March 15, 1865.

Brigadier General E. D. TOWNSEND,

Assistant Adjutant-General, Washington, D. C.:

DEAR TOWNSEND: The Navy Department has lately inquired after the orders under which the Fort Pickens expedition was organized and carried out.

The instruction to Colonel Brown and to Captain D. D. Porter were

Page 442

prepared by Colonel Keyes and by myself, or the greater part of them were so prepared, and the more important papers were signed by the President.

I left all my notes of these instructions with Hartsuff, that he might make up a complete record of the orders and instructions for the headquarters of the Department of Florida, of which Colonel Brown was placed in command. As he left Fort Pickens before they were engrossed, he left my papers in the office of the commander of the department.

The department having been broken up, it is probable that the records are still at Fort Pickens or Pensacola. I believe that the records of a department, when it is discontinued, should, by military rule, be sent to the Adjutant-General's Office at the War Department for safe keeping.

Would it not be well to send out orders for the transmission of the early records of headquarters of the Department of Florida to your office, so as to insure their preservation?

Inquiry at the Navy Department, and at the Executive Mansion and at the State Department, has failed to discover any copies of the orders.

It was an Executive act, unknown at the time to any but those engaged therein, including General Scott, the Secretary of State, and the President.

I am, very respectfully, your obedient servant,

M. C. MEIGS,

Quartermaster-General, Brevet Major-General, Chief Engineer of the Expedition to Relieve Fort Pickens in April, 1861.


THE LINCOLN ABSOLUTION REGARDING "IRREGULARITIES"

LINK

Order of the President of the United States to the Secretary of the Navy, relieving

Lieutenant D. D. Porter, U. S. Navy, from special duty.

EXECUTIVE MANSION, May 11, 1861.

SIR: Lieutenant D. D. Porter was placed in command of the steamer Powhatan and Captain Samuel Mercer was detached therefrom by my special order, and neither of them is responsible for any apparent or real irregularity on their part or in connection with that vessel. Hereafter Captain Porter is relieved from that special service and placed nnder the direction of the Navy Department, from which he will receive instructions and to which he will report.

Very respectfully, ABRAHAM LINCOLN.

The SECRETARY OF THE NAVY.


LINK

Abraham Lincoln Papers at the Library of Congress. Transcribed and Annotated by the Lincoln Studies Center, Knox College. Galesburg, Illinois.

From Montgomery C. Meigs to William H. Seward, April 1, 1861

(Copy.)

Private & Confidential

Dr. Sir

Bvt. Major Tower [1] of the Engineers writes on the 27th March, on board Sabine off Pensacola that he goes on shore when he chooses but does not reside in the fort because Capt. Adams lands naval forces and Lieut. Slemmer thought it would violate the agreement between U. S. and Col. Chase.

[Note 1 ID: Zealous B. Tower graduated first in his class at West Point and served on General Scott's staff during the Mexican War. Tower was the engineer in charge of the defenses at Fort Pickens in 1861 and was promoted to brigadier general in 1862. Severely wounded at Second Manassas, Tower spent the remainder of the war at West Point and on garrison duty.]

The Brooklyn before she went to Key West left Capt. Vogdes and his company on the Sabine.

They daily expect messengers to authorize them to put more troops into the Fort. So the reinforcement may have been already made.

Major Tower calls for stores for a defence against a siege but hopes such an exhibition of force by the United States as will prevent a siege.

I think that Porter should be ordered to take the Powhatan and sail from New York into Pensacola Harbor at once. The Wyandotte or any other steamer at Pensacola should also go in.

She should start tonight if ready. Other things can follow--

I am

Very truly & Respectfully

Your obt. servt


LINK

Abraham Lincoln Papers at the Library of Congress. Transcribed and Annotated by the Lincoln Studies Center, Knox College. Galesburg, Illinois.

From Gustavus V. Fox to John G. Nicolay, February 22, 1865

Washington, Feby 22 1865

Dear Sir:

Early in April 1861, the U S S Powhatan, under the command of Lieut. D. D. Porter, was despatched from New York to Pensacola on confidential service. [1] The orders were from the President direct and do not appear in the records of this Department. If there is a record of them in your office, will you be kind enough to furnish a copy for the files of this department?

[Note 1 David D. Porter, aboard the USS Powhatan, was dispatched by special Presidential order to the relief of Ft. Pickens in Pensacola harbor. See Official Records, Series I, Volume 1, 406-07; and Nicolay to Fox, February 24, 1865.] G. V. Fox.


LINK

Abraham Lincoln Papers at the Library of Congress. Transcribed and Annotated by the Lincoln Studies Center, Knox College. Galesburg, Illinois.

From John G. Nicolay to Gustavus V. Fox, February 24, 1865

Copy

Washington, Feb'y 24, 1865.

Dear Sir:

In reply to your letter of the 22d inst., the President requests me to say that he thinks no record was kept here of the orders given to Lieut. D. D. Porter, in regard to his confidential mission to Pensacola in the U. S. S. Powhatan, in 1861. [1] The President however remembers that Lieut. Porter was selected at the suggestion of Brevet. Maj. Genl. (then Captain) Montgomery C. Meigs, who, he thinks may be able to inform you where the records or memoranda you desire were kept.

[Note 1 David D. Porter, aboard the USS Powhatan, was dispatched by special Presidential order to the relief of Ft. Pickens in Pensacola harbor. See Official Records, Series I, Volume 1, 406-07; and Fox to Nicolay, February 22, 1865.]

Your obt servt

(signed) Jno. G. Nicolay

Priv. Sec.



162 posted on 07/01/2004 11:23:56 PM PDT by nolu chan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: SedVictaCatoni; Colt .45; Gianni
[SedVictaCatoni] Most of the histories I've read have stated that the South began the war when the Confederate state governments tried to seize United States property and began shelling it. You must have access to the lost accounts of Fort Sumter firing on Charleston. Will wonders never cease.

See also the ship's log of the USS Supply. The link goes to the official records. The Union forces started landing near Fort Pickens during the night of April 11, 1861 before shots were fired at Fort Sumter on April 12, 1861.

LINK

USS SUPPLY -- SHIPS LOG - APRIL 11, 1861

April 7. -- Came to anchor in the harbor of Pensacola.

April 11. -- At 9 p. m. the Brooklyn got Underway and stood in toward the harbor, and during the night landed the troops and marines on board, to reenforce Fort Pickens.


163 posted on 07/01/2004 11:38:46 PM PDT by nolu chan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: SedVictaCatoni; CurlyBill
[SedVictaCatoni] The war began after a group of seven Southern states had already seceded (and thereafter attacked the United States).

The violation of the armistice was, "an Executive act, unknown at the time to any but those engaged therein, including General Scott, the Secretary of State, and the President."
- General Montgomery Meigs

LINK

BREAKING THE ARMISTICE -- MARCH 12, 1861
RECORDS OF REBELLION,

VOLUME 1, CHAPTER 4

360

OPERATIONS IN FLORIDA.
[CHAP. IV.

HEADQUARTERS OF THE ARMY,
Washington, March 12, 1861.

Captain VOGDES, U. S. Army,
On board U. S. sloop-of-war Brooklyn, lying off Port Pickens:

SIR: At the first favorable moment you will land with your company, re-enforce Fort Pickens, and hold the same till further orders. Report frequently, if opportunities present themselves, on the condition of the fort and the circumstances around you.

I write by command of Lieutenant-General Scott.

I am, sir, very respectfully, your obedient servant,
E. D. TOWNSEND,
Assistant Adjutant-General.


| 362 | 363 | 364 |

ARMISTICE ENTERED INTO DURING LINCOLN ADMINISTRATION

RECORDS OF REBELLION

Volume 1, Chapter 4


Page 362

On the evening of the 12th I received this communication:

HEADQUARTERS TROOPS OF CONFEDERATE STATES,

Near Pensacola, Fla., March 13, 1861.

To the U. S. OFFICER commanding Fort Pickens, Fla.:

SIR: The bearer of this communication, Capt. R. C. Wood, Army of the Confederate States, waits upon you in my behalf with the purpose of obtaining information necessary to enable me to understand our relative positions. He will communicate to you my views, and receive such reply as you may be pleased to make.

I have the honor to be your obedient servant,

BRAXTON BRAGG,
Brigadier-General, Commanding


As I was absent at Pensacola delivering up the negroes, I did not see Captain Wood. I made the following answer, accompanying it with copies of the agreement entered into by Colonel Chase and the War Department, with copies of such other papers as would enable the general to understand our positions:

FORT PICKENS, FLA., March 13, 1861.

General BRAXTON BRAGG, Comdg. the forces, &c., near Pensacola, Fla.:

SIR: Your communication of this date reached this post during my absence. I have the honor to send you a copy of the agreement entered into between Colonel Chase, Senator Mallory, and the War and Navy Departments, with such other communications as may enable you to understand our relative positions. Please let me know as soon as convenient whether you will consider the agreement binding on your part or not.

I am, sir, very respectfully, your obedient servant,

A.J. SLEMMER,

First Lieutenant, First Artillery, Commanding.


To which I received the following reply:

HEADQUARTERS TROOPS OF CONFEDERATE STATES,

Near Pensacola, Pla., March 13, 1861.

Lient. A. J. SLEMMER, Commanding Fort Pickens:

SIR: I have the honor to acknowledge your communication of this date with its inclosures. In announcing to you my intention to conform strictly to the spirit of the agreement entered into by Colonel Chase, I beg to suggest to you that the erection of a battery on Santa Rosa Island bearing directly on our navy-yard is, in my view, directly in conflict with the spirit of the agreement. The erection of the works on this side bearing on the channel cannot, I conceive, be taken as a menace against Fort Pickens, and the act seems to me fully justified as a means of defense, and especially so under the threats of the new administration.

I am, sir, very respectfully, your obedient servant,

BRAXTON BRAGG,

Brigadier-General, Commanding.


The battery which the general mentions has no reality, and I so requested his aid, Lieutenant Gaines, to inform him.

On the 15th I made the following answer:

FORT PICKENS, FLA., March 15, 1861.

Brig. Gen. BRAXTON BRAGG, Comdg. Forces C. S., near Pensacola, Fla.:

Sir: I placed yesterday your communication of the 13th instant before the commander of the squadron off the harbor. This will account for the delay in announcing

Page 363

to you that the assurances given are perfectly satisfactory. Of the erection of the batteries on either side, I have only to say that our views on that point are directly opposite.

I am, sir, very respectfully, your most obedient servant,

A.J. SLEMMER,

First Lieutenant, First Artillery, Commanding.


I sent yesterday by mail (via New Orleans) my monthly returns and master rolls for February. I hope they will arrive safely. I was then not aware that Commander Adams would send a special messenger.

I would most respectfully call the attention of the commanding general to the fact that there is mention of a notification being given as to the termination of the agreement on either side.

I am, sir, very respectfully, your obedient servant,

A.J. SLEMMER,

First Lieutenant, First Artillery, Commanding.


U.S. STEAMER BROOKLYN, March 21, 1861.

[General SCOTT:]

GENERAL: I wrote to you a few days since asking you to decide the subject of command on this station. Since then Lieutenant Gilman has arrived. I hope, however, that you will give my communication a careful consideration, and will see the necessity of establishing a unity of command on the station. As I mentioned in my communication, it is indispensable that there should be a perfect understanding between the troops and the naval forces, and the positions to be occupied beforehand be fully determined upon. How this can be done when the troops will have to land only when the fort is attacked I am unable to see. It cannot be done unless Lieutenant Slemmer is to be allowed to give me orders and to assign me a position, and to that I never will submit. I will endeavor to perform my duty, I trust, on all occasions, but I never will submit to be commanded, directly or indirectly, by my junior. Moreover, when I enter the fort I become its commander, and will be held responsible for its defense. This will be, probably, when the enemy is already before its walls, and when I must, of course, be ignorant of the disposition which Lieutenant Slemmer has made for its defense. How am I to be held accountable for its defense when I have not the command until the last moment? I trust, general, that you will see at once the false position in which I am placed, and at once relieve me from it. If not, I enter my protest against being in any way held accountable for what may take place.

Until within a few days the naval and military forces have been supplied with fresh provisions from Warrington and Pensacola, but General Bragg has issued an order prohibiting any supplies being furnished to us, and prohibits the citizens communicating with us, except by special permission.

The conditions of the agreement entered into by the late Government and Major Chase and Senator Mallory give every advantage to the seceders, yet some of them deny the right of those two gentlemen to make it.

They are not required to give any notice of its abrogation, and may attack the fort without a moment’s notice, and under the most favorable circumstances it will be impossible to send any assistance to the fort from the ships in less time than three hours. Should there be the least panic among the troops within the fort it would probably be taken.

There are about forty guns mounted, and the garrison is about one man

Page 364

to a gun. They could only make a single discharge, and would not probably be able to reload the guns. Should those on any of the fronts be discharged too soon, that front would be left without any defense. Moreover, the garrison is kept constantly harassed, and is almost every night obliged to be under arms, from fear of attack. With the present garrison, my company, and one hundred marines, which we could obtain from the fleet, I think it would be perfectly secure from assault.

Our means of communication with the Government are very uncertain. We do not feel certain that our communications have reached the Department, nor do we know whether the Department’s messenger to us may not have been intercepted. Of course, we do not know how we are expected to act. I would suggest that a small steamer should ply between here and Havana, so as to communicate with the mail steamer from New York at that port. The supplies at the fort are getting low, and those of the naval forces are still lower. These last have not ten days’ supply.

The Brooklyn leaves to-morrow for Key West or Havana in order to obtain a supply. Should she not succeed, the naval forces will have to be withdrawn. The Brooklyn has by far the most efficient battery of any of the ships on the station, and is besides probably the only vessel that could take up a position to effectively cover our landing. It is much to be regretted that she should be withdrawn at this juncture. My company is to be transferred to the frigate Sabine.

Major Tower, of the Engineers, arrived on the 19th, but under the existing arrangement cannot reside within the fort. Even was he there, not having any force to labor, he could not do much. I have endeavored to lay before you a true statement of the disadvantageous position in which we are placed, and I trust that so far as it can be done it will be remedied. Whatever may be done, I trust that we will be soldiers enough to do all that lies in our power to uphold the honor of our country’s flag, and prevent its forts from being seized by those in rebellion against its authority.

Yours, truly,

I. VOGDES,

Captain, First Artillery.



164 posted on 07/02/2004 12:08:51 AM PDT by nolu chan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Gianni; SedVictaCatoni
[SedVictaCatoni] You must have access to the lost accounts of Fort Sumter firing on Charleston. Will wonders never cease.

DELIVERING THE GROCERIES
per Honest Abe and Co.

|Page 368|

OFFICIAL RECORDS: Series 1, vol 1, Part 1, page 368

APRIL 3, 1861.

Honorable WM. H. SEWARD, Secretary of State:

DEAR SIR: We expect to touch at Key West, and will be able to set things in order there and give the first check to the secession movement by firmly establishing the authority of the United States in that most ungrateful island and city. Thence we propose to send dispatches under cover to you. The officers will write to their friends,

|Page 369|

OFFICIAL RECORDS: Series 1, vol 1, Part 1, page 369

understanding that the package will not be broken until after the public has notice through the newspapers of our success or defeat. Our object is yet unknown on board, and if I read the papers of the eve of our departure aright our secret is still a secret in New York. No communication with the shore, however, will be allowed.

Your dispatch arrived as I was on my away to the Atlantic, just before the hour at which she was to sail, and two or three hours after that appointed for the Powhatan. When the arrow has sped from the bow it may glance aside, but who shall reclaim it before its flight is finished?

A violent gale compelled us to lay head to wind for twenty-four hours. We ran one hundred miles out of our course. The Powhatan having taken this gale earlier may have got through it with less delay, so that it is not now likely that we will overtake her. She had orders to call off Key West, and by boat or signal ascertain whether we had passed. It is important that she should reach the port before us.

* * *

The dispatch and the secrecy with which this expedition has been fitted out will strike terror into the ranks of rebellion. All New York saw, all the United States knew, that the Atlantic was filling with stores and troops. But now this nameless vessel, her name is painted out, speeds out of the track of commerce to an unknown destination. Mysterious, unseen, where will the powerful bolt fall? What thousands of men, spending the means of the Confederate States, vainly beat the air amid the swamps of the southern coast, and, filling the dank forts, curse secession and the mosquitoes!

* * *

God promised to send before his chosen people and advance-guard of hornets. Our constant allies are the more efficient mosquitoes and sand-flies. At this time the republic has need of all her sons, of all their knowledge, zeal, and courage.

Major Hunt is with us, somewhat depressed at going into the field without his horses. His battery of Napoleon guns, probably the best field guns in our service, is to follow in the Illinois; but the traitor Twiggs surrendered his horses to the rebels of Texas, and the company

|Page 370|

of well-trained artillerists finds itself, after eight years of practice in that highest and most efficient arm, the light artillery, going into active service as footmen. They, too, feel, the change deeply.

* * *

I am, most respectfully, your obedient servant,

M. C. MEIG,

Captain of Engineers.

165 posted on 07/02/2004 12:16:56 AM PDT by nolu chan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: nolu chan
The Union forces started landing near Fort Pickens during the night of April 11, 1861 before shots were fired at Fort Sumter on April 12, 1861.

Your spam posts do not shed any useful light on this discussion. Here are records of the United States sending soldiers of the United States Army to reinforce forts belonging to the United States. I spoke of the aggression of South Carolina in attacking said forts. Given the bellicose Confederate actions in beginning the war, it is little wonder that the United States suspected that it should reinforce its property. By the Confederate reasoning, the United States begins a war with Cuba every time it sends naval forces to its own base there.

166 posted on 07/02/2004 7:47:25 AM PDT by SedVictaCatoni
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 163 | View Replies]

To: IrishCatholic
the "fringe elements" are persons like you who WISH that slavery WAS the "primary cause of the war". imVho, the reason that you/others cling to that FALLACY of both logic & reason is that it makes the lincoln regime & the hateFILLED damnyankee elites appear to be less hateful & oppressive.

nothing could be farther from the truth.

TRUTH is NOT a distillation of what you and the other southHATERS wish it had been/is. it is just the truth.

fyi, there are no "neo-confederates". there are however hundreds of thousands of us PALEO-confederates, who have not forgotten how sweet breathing dixie liberty air was.

free dixie,sw

167 posted on 07/02/2004 8:11:18 AM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 138 | View Replies]

To: IrishCatholic
and you,otoh, are just another of the misbegotten,ill-educated drinkers of the damnyankee kool-aid. ENJOY.

free dixie,sw

168 posted on 07/02/2004 8:13:37 AM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 140 | View Replies]

To: IrishCatholic
are you REALLY as dumb as this post suggests you are???

no matter how much you may wish it was so, the WBTS was ONLY about freedom for dixie, NOT the preservation of a dying institution.

may i gently suggest that you head over to DU, where fools,cretins & self-righteous LIARS dwell. they will REALLY like you.

free dixie,sw

169 posted on 07/02/2004 8:19:28 AM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 141 | View Replies]

To: IrishCatholic
btw, that "funny metallic taste" in the kool-aid is the innocent blood of NON-white persons, like the 92 members of my family, who were raped,robbed,tortured & then SLAUGHTERED like cattle by the damnyankee army.

of course, that was A-OK with the damnyankee filth in blue (and with the damnyankee apologists NOW!) since we NON-whites were NON-persons as well.

free dixie,sw

170 posted on 07/02/2004 8:38:44 AM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 140 | View Replies]

To: SedVictaCatoni
You are nothing more than a PC shill who has no interest in the truth. You would've made a great follower for Robespierre and Lenin. You can't be a leader because you've never had an original thought! You think the United States was pure white and holy prior to the outbreak of the War of Northern Aggression.

You truly are a sad case, and definitely not interested in factual history. Nolu Chan went through the trouble to dig up that information which is clearly germain to this discussion, (he even posted the links!) and you choose to call it "spam". I, as would most others on here, believe it is you who are "spam". You have nothing of redeeming value to add to this discussion, and your presence here detracts from those who are genuinely interested in facts. You really need to study up on things.

Don't go away mad - just GO AWAY!

171 posted on 07/02/2004 8:54:30 AM PDT by Colt .45 ( Veteran - Pride in my Southern Ancestry! Falsum etiam est verum quod constituit superior.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 166 | View Replies]

To: SedVictaCatoni
Why did they secede, if not to protect the institution of slavery?

Why would they need to protect the institution of slavery? It was essentially recognized in the U. S. Constitution.

172 posted on 07/02/2004 9:05:57 AM PDT by AndrewC (I am a Bertrand Russell agnostic, even an atheist.</sarcasm>)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Colt .45; SedVictaCatoni
svc,PLEASE do NOT go away! (colt45, PLEASE don't run him off. either!)

we southrons need you around to torment (i enjoy tormenting posters like you-it is ONE of my MANY personal faults!).

PLUS, those who post IGNORANT, UNtruthful drivel out of the most extreme leftist southHATING halls of northeastern academia do MORE than i (and other PALEO_Confederates) can EVER do to attract NEW recruits for the continuing war against the arrogant,ignorant,hateFILLED,LEFTist,mean-spirited,racist,anti-semetic damnyankees.

free dixie NOW,sw

173 posted on 07/02/2004 10:23:06 AM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 171 | View Replies]

To: SedVictaCatoni
[SedVictaCatoni] Your spam posts do not shed any useful light on this discussion. Here are records of the United States sending soldiers of the United States Army to reinforce forts belonging to the United States. I spoke of the aggression of South Carolina in attacking said forts. Given the bellicose Confederate actions in beginning the war, it is little wonder that the United States suspected that it should reinforce its property.

Your opinions, in direct conflict with the known official records, add less than nothing to the discussion. Given the bellicose Lincoln actions in starting the war, as clearly documented in the Official Records, it is little wonder that you must desperately try to run from the facts.

The United States government entered into agreements with both Florida and South Carolina to NOT reinforce the forts. The United States government violated the armistices.

For this reason, Lincoln lied to the public and lied to Congress. Congress inquired about several aspects of the events. In addition to the other inventions of Lincoln mentioned upthread, Lincoln then invented the doctrine of Executive Privilege to stonewall Congress in order to cover up his lies.

LINCOLN LIED TO CONGRESS 1

In his special message of July 4, 1861 to Congress, seeking to justify his illegal actions and to obtain Congressional forgiveness, Lincoln lied repeatedly. He gave false information and he withheld information. His lies and omissions were relevant and material.

[Lincoln] As had been intended, in this contingency, it was also resolved to notify the Governor of South Carolina, that he might except an attempt would be made to provision the Fort; and that, if the attempt should not be resisted, there would be no effort to throw in men, arms, or ammunition, without further notice....

Lincoln simply lied. The day after Congress adjourned, Lincoln began to issue orders, not to resupply Sumter and Pickens, but specifically to reinforce. Lincoln lied to the governor of South Carolina and he lied to Congress.

O.R. Series 1, Vol. 1, Part 1, page 286

MONTGOMERY, ALA., April 3, 1861 - 10 p. m.

General BEAUREGARD:

Minnesota ordered to sea, supposed to be for mouth of Mississippi; Powhatan to sail next week; Pawnee ordered to sea on Saturday. Three companies artillery (one of sappers and miners) ordered to New York; probably for the South. Be on lookout.

L. P. WALKER.


March 29, 1861
To the Secretary of the Navy

I desire that an expedition, to move by sea be go ready to sail as early as the 6th of April next, the whole according to memorandum attached: and that you co-operate with the Secretary of War for that object.

Signed: Abraham Lincoln

The memorandum attached called for:

From the Navy, three ships of war, the Pocahontas, the Pawnee and the Harriet Lane; and 300 seamen, and one month's stores.

From the War Department, 200 men, ready to leave garrison; and one year's stores.

April 1, 1861 by General Scott
April 2, 1861 approved by Abraham Lincoln
To: Brevet Colonel Harvey Brown, U.S. Army

You have been designated to take command of an expedition to reinforce and hold Fort Pickens in the harbor of Pensacola. You will proceed to New York where steam transportation for four companies will be engaged; -- and putting on board such supplies as you can ship without delay proceed at once to your destination. The object and destination of this expedition will be communicated to no one to whom it is not already known. Signed: Winfield Scott
Signed approved: Abraham Lincoln

April 4, 1861
To: Lieut. Col. H.L. Scott, Aide de Camp

This will be handed to you by Captain G.V. Fox, an ex-officer of the Navy. He is charged by authority here, with the command of an expedition (under cover of certain ships of war) whose object is, to reinforce Fort Sumter.

To embark with Captain Fox, you will cause a detachment of recruits, say about 200, to be immediately organized at fort Columbus, with competent number of officers, arms, ammunition, and subsistence, with other necessaries needed for the augmented garrison at Fort Sumter.

Signed: Winfield Scott

April 1, 1861
To Captain H.A. Adams
Commanding Naval Forces off Pensacola

Herewith I send you a copy of an order received by me last night. You will see by it that I am directed to land my command at the earliest opportunity. I have therefore to request that you will place at my disposal such boats and other means as will enable me to carry into effect the enclosed order.

Signed: I. Vogdes, Capt. 1st Artly. Comdg.

Captain Adams REFUSED TO OBEY THE ORDER and reported to the Secretary of the Navy as follows:

It would be considered not only a declaration but an act of war; and would be resisted to the utmost.

Both sides are faithfully observing the agreement (armistice) entered into by the United States Government and Mr. Mallory and Colonel Chase, which binds us not to reinforce Fort Pickens unless it shall be attacked or threatened. It binds them not to attack it unless we should attempt to reinforce it.

The Secretary of the Navy issued a CLASSIFIED response to Capt. Adams:

April 6, 1861

Your dispatch of April 1st is received. The Department regrets that you did not comply with the request of Capt. Vogdes. You will immediately on the first favorable opportunity after receipt of this order, afford every facility to Capt. Vogdes to enable him to land the troops under his command, it being the wish and intention of the Navy Department to co-operate with the War Department, in that object.

Signed: Gideon Welles, Secty. of the Navy

April 11, 1861 (USS Supply, official ship's log)

"April 11th at 9 P.M. the Brooklyn got under way and stood in toward the harbor; and during the night landed troops and marines on board, to reinforce Fort Pickens."

April 1, 1861 To: Lt. D.D. Porter, USN

You will proceed to New York and with least possible delay assume command of any steamer available.

Proceed to Pensacola Harbor, and, at any cost or risk, prevent any expedition from the main land reaching Fort Pickens, or Santa Rosa.

You will exhibit this order to any Naval Officer at Pensacola, if you deem it necessary, after you have established yourself within the harbor.

This order, its object, and your destination will be communicated to no person whatever, until you reach the harbor of Pensacola.

Signed: Abraham Lincoln
Recommended signed: Wm. H. Seward

April 1, 1861
Telegram
To: Commandant, Brooklyn Navy Yard

Fit out Powhatan to go to sea at the earliest possible moment, under sealed orders. Orders by confidential messenger go forward tomorrow.

Signed: Abraham Lincoln

April 1, 1861
To: Commandant, Brooklyn Navy Yard

You will fit out the Powhatan without delay. Lieutenant Porter will relieve Captain Mercer in command of her. She is bound on secret service; and you will under no circumstances communicate to the Navy Department the fact that she is fitting out.

Signed: Abraham Lincoln

O.R. Series 1, Vol. 1, Part 1, page 291

APRIL 8, 1861.

"I am directed by the President of the United States to notify you to expect an attempt will be made to supply Fort Sumter with provisions only, and that if such attempt be not resisted no effort to throw in men, arms, or ammunition will be made without further notice, or in case of an attack upon the fort."

The above was communicated to us on the evening of April 8 by Robert S. Chew, esq., of the State Department in Washington, and Captain Talbot stated that it was from the President of the United States, as did Mr. Chew, and was delivered to him on the 6th instant at Washington, and this was read in their presence and admitted.

F. W. PICKENS.

P. G. T. BEAUREGARD.



174 posted on 07/02/2004 10:31:24 AM PDT by nolu chan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 166 | View Replies]

To: Colt .45; SedVictaCatoni
...the War of Northern Aggression.

And you call him a shill.

175 posted on 07/02/2004 10:32:07 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Jefferson Davis - the first 'selected, not elected' president.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 171 | View Replies]

To: IrishCatholic
[IrishCatholic] the Mexican war- a truly national war

New England tended to sit that one out, as it did others.

In the Mexican war,
Massachusetts furnished.................1,047
New Hampshire....................................1
The other New England States........0,000
......................................................1,048

The whole number of troops contributed by the North to the Mexican war was 23,054; while the South contributed 43,630....

SOURCE: Southern History of the War, Edward A. Pollard, 1866, Vol I, Fairfax Press Edition 1978, pp. 64-5.

176 posted on 07/02/2004 10:40:57 AM PDT by nolu chan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 119 | View Replies]

To: stand watie
Where to start? Oh yea. Take your meds.
The war was about slavery, the institution, the expansion of slave rights into new territories. No matter how rabidly you simply say it wasn't so, it was. Jeff Davis said it. Stephens said it. There you go.
Anytime someone points out this fact, along with the South lost, you resort to name calling. A "says you...my old man could beat your old man..." approach that shows you lost.
SO,like the failed traitorous institution you worship, your hate America Michael Moore approach fails.
Neo or paleo the dixie liberty free air you fantasize about was built on the slavery of others which in every post you insanely must ignore.
You are truly the fringe. The new South is America. It sounds wonderful.
177 posted on 07/02/2004 12:11:44 PM PDT by IrishCatholic (The U.N.? What are these people smoking?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 167 | View Replies]

To: stand watie

Yada yada yada.


178 posted on 07/02/2004 12:13:22 PM PDT by IrishCatholic (The Confederacy? Try it from the slaves point of view. Enjoy.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 168 | View Replies]

To: stand watie
This is about where I came in warning another poster about the flat earth society/damnyankee mentals. You resort to name calling and telling people to go to the DU when really YOU are the one who hates America and wished it was split in half.
It is you who can't handle the facts. I'm sorry your life is a mess. Maybe this is all you have. But I don't need to lie to you, you aren't worth it. Also, how dying was the institution? In a previous thread I brought that up and you wanted me banned to a slavery thread. You wouldn't answer then because you would have to face the truth and YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH.
179 posted on 07/02/2004 12:19:14 PM PDT by IrishCatholic (The Confederacy? Try it from the slaves point of view. Enjoy.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 169 | View Replies]

To: stand watie

Sorry about the cousins. I wonder about the real story though. Maybe posting that would be an interesting point of history, if one could filter out the hate/bias you would inject.
I also find it ironic that you talk about "damnyankee filth in blue" considering non whites non persons when you rabidly worship a slave system that held four million people in bondage, sold them, raped them, worked them, tortured them, and killed them. Are you so far gone you can't even see the hypocrisy there?


180 posted on 07/02/2004 12:23:52 PM PDT by IrishCatholic (The Confederacy? Try it from the slaves point of view. Enjoy.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 170 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 141-160161-180181-200 ... 321-324 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Smoky Backroom
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson