U.S. Plan for Fallujah Hits Snag

Washington Post ^ | May 2, 2004 | Rajiv Chandrasekaran and Scott Wilson

[NCjim]

Former Iraqi Soldiers Will Not Restore Order in Fallujah

The U.S. Marine plan to have former Iraqi soldiers restore order in Fallujah ran into trouble Sunday as the former Iraqi general heading the new force denied there were any foreign fighters in the city, calling into question his commitment to American military objectives. A few hours later, the top U.S. military commander said the general would not be allowed to lead the scores of armed men he already has mustered in the city.

[nonliberal]

Bush should just send the Iraqis our Constitution since we are not using it right now.

[colorado tanker]

Three points.

One, the Marine Corps line before arriving in country was that the Army was too harsh in its occupation and a kinder and gentler hearts and minds approach would be better. They got a very quick education about that misguided notion.

Two, the general idea is not to take casualties.

Three, you will not be able to convince many folks that the 82nd Airborne are a bunch of slackers.

The Marines have got a very quick and hard education that the Sunni Triangle is not like the Shiite south. I wish it had not been so. I grieve for our losses. But the Marines might not have been so haughty that they knew better how to handle the Triangle than the previous boots on the ground.

Our enemies are proclaiming victory. I'm afraid matters are worse.

[FreeReign]

This would be the same guy we said we trusted?

For the past few days, the liberal media has used the word entrusted to describe Saleh's relationship with 1 MEF. So, you pick up on it and spit it out here in your post.

The following Lt. Gen Conway comments seems to suggest something a little bit different.

The unit assumed control of four checkpoints April 30 and has started patrolling Fallujah, he said. Yet, until the Iraqi battalion demonstrates a capacity to effectively man designated checkpoints and positions, Marines will continue to maintain a strong presence in and around Fallujah, said Kimmitt during a press briefing April 30. "We have assigned the Iraqi battalion to our least-engaged sector until they can get their feet on deck, absorb the weapons and equipment we are passing their way and prepare for the next phase of the operation," said Lt. Gen. James T. Conway, the I Marine Expeditionary Force commander.

[r9etb]

What -- you've never heard a lady moan? That's your problem, not mine.... ;-)

[hermgem]

You got that exactly correct. We either get this cleaned up with their support or have to do it by ourselves.
If things go wrong and this General is marching to a different drummer we can immediately correct the situation by notifying civilians to leave and then hitting hard with full airpower followed by boots without this General.
It's now or never, enough negotiations, everything that needs to be talked about has been clearly communicated and agreed upon. No more stalling.

[NutCrackerBoy]

Bush should just send the Iraqis our Constitution since we are not using it right now.

Beautiful!

[jpsb]

LOL, hate to laugh, but that was funny and true.

[jpsb]

"One, the Marine Corps line before arriving in country was that the Army was too harsh in its occupation "

Source? Thanks

[jpsb]

"absorb the weapons and equipment we are passing their way"

Well there it is. I hope they are kind enough to give them back.

[CatOwner]

"Ah Helloooo President Bush. Wake the F up. This is YOUR watch Mr. President. Take Fallujah and Najaf decisively NOW!"

Not going to happen.

"Lots of 2000 lb bombs and flames. B52s. 24/7. Take those two places down now! KILL THE ENEMY MR. BUSH."

Really not going to happen. I wish people would stop asking for this. President Bush is not going to let this happen. Deal with it.

"The Iraqi civilians are rejoicing over American deaths everyday by the thousands. There are no Iraqis demonstrating for US."

This is true, but this is typical Arab PR. Anyone expecting these people to change radically overnight, in the next year, in the next decade, in the next generation, are only fooling themselves.

"KILL THE ENEMY"

We are, as best we can. To kill every Islamic fanatic without loss of life on our part would require a step that will not be taken by this President.

"AND YES THAT MEANS CIVILIANS."

Again, really not going to happen, at least purposely.

"They are killing US"

That's the part I agree with and it bothers me, but what choice is there?

[norton]

Flatten, apolize, rebuild.
When did we apologize to Japan and Germany ?...

Kick ass, take names (throw names away unless they are interesting),
and screw them if they can't take a joke.

Sound better?

[hermgem]

You got that exactly correct. We either get this cleaned up with their support or have to do it by ourselves.
If things go wrong and this General is marching to a different drummer we can immediately correct the situation by notifying civilians to leave and then hitting hard with full airpower followed by boots without this General.
It's now or never, enough negotiations, everything that needs to be talked about has been clearly communicated and agreed upon. No more stalling.

[Nurse Ratched]

Does anyone have any idea of the total amount of money the us government has spent -to date- in iraq to over-through the prior government and rebuild the nation? Does anyone know?

[FreeReign]

I hope they are kind enough to give them back.

How do you know that Saleh has been given a choice to give back the AK-47s?

[jpsb]

Fallujah? Yea, waste the place. Najaf, no, tread lightly there until the Sunnis have been taken care of. Don't want to fight both at the same time. The Sunnis had better wake up too. I don't think we'll put up with this much longer, hope not anyway.

[getgoing]

Equipment to Fallujah Brigade http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1128368/posts

Discussion moved to the Backroom because???

[IGOTMINE]

Three points.
One, the Marine Corps line before arriving in country was that the Army was too harsh in its occupation and a kinder and gentler hearts and minds approach would be better. They got a very quick education about that misguided notion.

Response---Question. What event precipitated the Marine's move into Fallujah? I'll help. Four contractors were killed and butchered. That pretty much set the pace for the "no worse enemy" approach to the situation, didn't it.

Two, the general idea is not to take casualties.

Reponse---Yes. That is the general idea, and in avoiding contact with the enemy the 82nd took that approach to its zenith. Of course they didn't really perform their duty of winning the war, but they were highly successful at leaving the dirty work for the USMC.

Three, you will not be able to convince many folks that the 82nd Airborne are a bunch of slackers.

Response---The fact is the 82nd didn't actively patrol Fallujah and "operated" in that area for six months while suffering only one KIA. How can this be possible if they were seeking the enemy?

The Marines have got a very quick and hard education that the Sunni Triangle is not like the Shiite south. I wish it had not been so. I grieve for our losses. But the Marines might not have been so haughty that they knew better how to handle the Triangle than the previous boots on the ground.

Response---If by "handling the Triangle" you mean to stay hunkered down then yes, the Corps doesn't know much about that.

Our enemies are proclaiming victory. I'm afraid matters are worse.

Response: You are speaking from a well entrenched position of ignorance tempered with interservice jealousy. You don't know any more of what is going on around that town than what is being presented by media fed conjecture. The fact that you seem to be lapping up reports of difficulty does leave me wondering.

[norton]

Or then again, maybe:
"Time is being wasted. We are being embarrassed. The enemy is killing more of our troops all over Iraq while we sit around."
Time is a weapon, we have shown a willingness to trust those who might offer a solution, people die in a war zone & we have lost less in ambushes than likely in a frontal assault.

" We should have taken Fallujah 3 weeks ago. THEN we would have been well underway to Iraqization of the situation.
"No linkage at all, taking Falluja would/will mean nothing regarding Iraquization. Iraqi responsibility for Iraqi conditions is THEIR thing, not ours. However, 'taking' Fallujah might be more appropriate in light of this double cross.
[see below]

"But first you have to send the message that WE WON and THEY LOST."
And there, I hope that our side determines that the appropriate response is (a) from the air, (b) devastating, (c) without appology or second thoughts, and, (d) with minimal casualties on our side.

Sound OK to you?

[jpsb]

Beats me, I thought it was a good thread. And very timely too.

[jpsb]

Thanks, I posted this on my site too,

In for a penny in for a pound.

Something tells me we are going to regret arming these guys.