The UNTHINKABLE -- "Chat session - with Jim Robinson (FR)" -- at Liberty Post?

LP | March 18th, 2004 | Jim Robinson

[Howlin]

To me, this is beginning to look like that there is a genuine dislike on this site for those who characterize themselves as conservative Republicans, as opposed to those who call themselves only conservatives.

The GOP seems to be kryptonite to some of our posters.

[headsonpikes]

Well, I didn't use a capital 'L' on libertarian for a reason. ;^)

The 'L's are what I call 'bubble-boy' libertarians - ideologically driven and utopian. Personally, I'm a libertarian Conservative, with my views founded in the real history of Britain, Canada, and the U.S. From the Glorious Revolution to the next one, I'm a traditionalist. ;^)

[onyx]

It comes down to their personal brand of conservatism. I have determined that each one has a "favorite" issue and will pout, bitch, and wail about it endlessly, dragging it from thread to thread. Bush's immigration proposal comes to mind. Of course never mentioned is the opposition's idea: citizenship for every illegal; --- total, immediate, amnesty.

[JustAmy]

ROFLOL

Thanks!!

[Trinity_Tx]

Personal attacks should not be condoned or depended on to "win" a vote by either side. Fight the idea, not the person.

(Except for trolls and radicals on a mission) Let them make their complaint about policy X.

Then we could either prove why X is a good policy (or necessary for votes needed to get/keep policy Y) or honestly agree that policy X is something we disagree with also...

If we too disagree with the policy, be honest... just ask them what they think would serve our best interest - throwing the baby out with the bath water? No... get together as supporters to constructively let him know how his base feels.

But we gotta give the would-be Bush-basher a feeling of control, keeps him in the fold, and basically takes the red out of his eyes.

We need to keep them listening to remind them that getting Votes is the #1 goal for the pragmatist - Remind them that that their principles will be little comfort to them if they continually conceded their votes to Other Side, making them responsible when the country has gone all "Blue". They should care about their children's country more than their pride in their own principles.

I just would avoid accusing everyone who complains about policy X of being [insert nasty label here].

If nothing else, it allows them to ignore the reasonable and logical arguments and focus on my misguided attack. Even if the person was lost anyway, think about the lurkers and the wavering.

No one wins.

[onyx]

Exactly right, Trinity. Their vote is our goal.

[Trinity_Tx]

It's just a tactic. Labels spare people the headache of nuance. They are hoping to make the word "republican" or GOP something to be ashamed of - and make it easier to force everyone into swallowing Whole Pills.

They need to be reminded that every party is comprised of people who are divided on particular issues. The smart thing to do is hash out those disagreements without lumping each other into divisions, burning bridges with flames of personal offenses, and losing site of the enemy.

[MEG33]

I just found this thread.If coteblanche did not confront JR,she is the biggest phony ever.She acts so abused and makes constant accusations..LOL.

[NittanyLion]

It is about being an adult voter who recognizes that it is better to have a man in the White House with whom one agress with even 60% of the time.

And by expressing our criticism when we have it, we may likely get a man in the White House with whom we agree 70% or 80% of the time. I think it's folly to remain quiet in the fact of policy with which we disagree. Voicing criticism is our only avenue for persuading our representatives to enact more conservative policy.

I certainly wouldn't suggest we berate the administration or hurl only insults, but I see nothing wrong with honest criticism. And if you disagree with said criticism, provide an argument showing why the administration's actions are necessary (not you personally...I'm using "you" in the abstract).

[MEG33]

Great posts onyx.I once said on FR when the Tancredo for President campaign was going strong,that I realized I wasn't trying to win an argument,just trying to win an election.

I am passionate about the harm I believe John Kerry can cause this country and 3rd party votes or no vote at all just might give Kerry the Presidency.

I have never found a candidate that I agreed with completely.I support President Bush.

[onyx]

Primaries are the time to voice criticism and to support the candidate of your liking.

Election '04 is a choice between POTUS and a democrat, presumably Kerry.

The GOP platform will have its fights. I just hope it's not a bloodbath. This election is too important to lose.

[NittanyLion]

I have determined that each one has a "favorite" issue and will pout, bitch, and wail about it endlessly, dragging it from thread to thread. Bush's immigration proposal comes to mind. Of course never mentioned is the opposition's idea: citizenship for every illegal; --- total, immediate, amnesty.

I think the question each of us must ask, is whether the appropriate answer to the opposition's proposal is a watered-down proposal of the same, or a hardline conservative stance.

My opinion is that each issue must be judged in its own context. But I think the case can be made that, in the case of amnesty, a hardline conservative stance is actually most popular with the electorate. I would submit a moderate stance is actually counterproductive in a political sense.

Ultimately, we need to take what we can get, where we can get it. On some issues the GOP will have to compromise, but let's not allow liberals to gain ground in areas where the country is behind conservative principles.

[NittanyLion]

Primaries are the time to voice criticism and to support the candidate of your liking.

I disagree. Criticism is appropriate whenever events dictate. By providing timely feedback, conservatives help the Administration/Congress change behavior in real-time and avoid potential mis-steps.

If we were to withhold all negative feedback until primaries, it might very well be too late to change course and offer conservative politicians a real chance at victory.

[ST.LOUIE1]

LOL!! Not much more I can add....so I won't. : ) Oh, yeah, you could. LOL!

But....but....but....I'm a gentlemanly wolf. : )

I will just say that even though all her id's here have been banned and/or nuked, I wonder if she's aware that all her quite ugly FR mails were left intact.

If she keeps bashing Amy, Mama_Bear and Jim....she will be soon enough. : )

Everyone who got at least one, raise your hand. LOL

LOL Ooops....my paw went up. : )

[MEG33]

I believe in an election year,if you believe your candidate is best,even though you have some real complaints,it is best to point out the positives more than the negatives in this public forum.

As I say,I am afraid for our country if Kerry is elected. Write President Bush,talk to your party chairman,but the goal is to protect the office of Presidency from Kerry come November.

[NittanyLion]

I believe in an election year,if you believe your candidate is best,even though you have some real complaints,it is best to point out the positives more than the negatives in this public forum.

I agree. Although it probably hinges on how many negatives you and I think it's appropriate to point out. I suspect I'm comfortable with pointing out more than you, but I understand why you feel differently and I respect that. To be quite honest, I haven't found a lot of negatives lately - I'm pretty pleased with the Administration's actions of late. I hope the trend continues, but I also understand that I'm right of 95% of the electorate and will often be dissatisfied. I try to make my voice heard on the issues where a plurality of Americans agree with me or don't care (e.g. CFR, illegals), and remain quiet on those issues I know are much too conservative for the electorate as a whole.

[MEG33]

Thank you.Reasonable people can reason together!

[Harmless Teddy Bear]

Holy Moley!

No duh!

I wondered what had happened to some of these people. I guess I now know. Very interesting in a twilight zone sort of way.

[Trinity_Tx]

"I believe in an election year,if you believe your candidate is best,even though you have some real complaints,it is best to point out the positives more than the negatives in this public forum."

I agree with you. I've wished there were a way to set up a private area for those discussions, in which only established republican voters could participate.

Since we don't have that, I'd encourage everyone to focus on the real enemy. But if they do start threads meant to criticize Bush, I think our response is just as critical as their criticism.

Flaming them personally only alienates them further, especially if they are decent people who feel they have legitimate complaints. It sends them off (even voluntarily) to group up against us, and that doesn't help us win the election either.

We want them to think with their minds, not with their emotions, so we should try to avoid tripping them on that goal by tweaking anger and resentment.

[Trinity_Tx]

"I also understand that I'm right of 95% of the electorate and will often be dissatisfied. I try to make my voice heard on the issues where a plurality of Americans agree with me or don't care (e.g. CFR, illegals), and remain quiet on those issues I know are much too conservative for the electorate as a whole."

Gosh you're smart! lol

Well said. : )