Posted on 12/10/2003 4:11:16 AM PST by drstevej
drstevej,xzins: Seems like this thread has deviated from its stated purpose. Hope I'm wrong - I intend no slander - but I am also not just kidding around, and I don't wear ties.
For the time being how about joining me in singing one of my many favorites "Behold the Host":
Behold a host, arrayed in white, Like thousand snow-clad mountains bright With palms they stand - Who are this band Before the throne of light? Lo, these are they, of glorious fame, Who from the great affliction came, And in the flood of Jesus' blood Are cleansed from guilt and blame; Now gathered in the holy place Their voices they in worship raise, Their anthems swell where God doth dwell,'Mid angels' song of praise.
Despised and scorned they sojourned here But now,how glorious they appear! Those martyrs stand, a priestly band, God's throne forever near. So oft, in troubled days gone by, In anguish they would weep and sigh; At home above the God of love For aye their tears shall dry. They now enjoy their sabbath rest, The paschal banquet of the blest; The Lamb, their lord, at festal board Himself is host and guest.
Then hail! ye mighty legions, yea, All hail! now safe and blest for aye; And praise the Lord, who with His word Sustained you on the way. Ye did the joys of earth disdain, Ye toiled and sowed in tears and pain; Farewell, now bring your sheaves,and sing Salvation's glad refrain. Swing high your palms, lift up your song, Yea, make it myriad voices strong: Eternally shall praise to Thee, God, and the Lamb belong!
H.A.Brorson 1760
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Did God make you a healthy, stable, quick-witted, intelligent guy of sound mind and body to whom He gave a wife and children and cable-TV?
And did the same God create the dying four-year-old orphan in Botswana who will not live to see the spring?
"Favoritism" might as well be a foreign language for all the sense it makes when talking about God's will.
It's for Him to know why; it's for us to say 'thank-you' and obey.
Hair Addicts
LOL.
Or Herr A. Tix.
I agree. It doubles your pleasure; doubles your fun.
But I think we've got a replacement in our midst. Practice for when the time comes, CDL.
Far, far above your thought His counsel shall appear,
When fully He the work has wrought That caused your needless fear.
Leave to His sovereign will To choose and to command:
With wonder filled, you then shall own How wise, how strong His hand.
~Give to the Winds Your Fears, Paul Gerhardt, Trans. By John Wesley, Based on Ps. 37
How firm a foundation, ye saints of the Lord,
Is laid for your faith in His excellent Word!
What more can He say than to you He hath said,
To you who for refuge to Jesus have fled?
“Fear not, I am with thee; O be not dismayed,
For I am thy God, and will still give thee aid;
I’ll strengthen thee, help thee, and cause thee to stand,
Upheld by my righteous, omnipotent hand.
When through the deep waters I call thee to go,
The rivers of sorrow shall not overflow;
For I will be with thee, thy troubles to bless,
And sanctify to thee thy deepest distress.
When through fiery trials thy pathway shall lie,
My grace, all sufficient, shall be thy supply:
The flame shall not hurt thee; I only design
Thy dross to consume, and thy gold to refine.
The soul that on Jesus hath leaned for repose,
I will not, I will not desert to his foes;
That soul, though all hell should endeavor to shake, I’ll never, no, never, no, never forsake!”
~How Firm A Foundation, 1787
Who Are These like Stars Appearing
Who are these like stars appearing, these before God's throne who stand?
Each a golden crown is wearing; who are all this glorious band?
Alleluia! Hark, they sing, praising loud their heav'nly King.
Who are these of dazzling brightness, these in God's own truth arrayed,
clad in robes of purest whiteness, robes whose luster ne'er shall fade,
ne'er be touched by time's rude hand? Whence come all this glorious band?
These are they who have contended for their Savior's honor long,
wrestling on till life was ended, foll'wing not the sinful throng;
these who well the fight sustained, triumph through the Lamb have gained.
These are they whose hearts were riven, sore with woe and anguish tried,
who in prayer full oft have striven with the God they glorified;
now, their painful conflict o'er, God has bid them weep no more.
These, like priests, have watched and waited, off'ring up to Christ their will;
soul and body consecrated, day and night to serve him still:
now in God's most holy place blest they stand before his face.
Yes, because you are tying together two unrelated thoughts, the former of which is false. Namely:
In fact, his Free Will is not even consulted.
St. John 5.21 does not address that concept at all.
The entire premise of St. Augustine's system of grace is that God makes the choice of Himself so persuasive that the soul will do naught else under the influence of grace. Its not that the soul couldn't do otherwise, its that God knows it won't. One hardly knows where to begin in explicating St. Augustine if you refuse the principal of the cooperation of the free will with grace.
But it is the work of God's grace, which assists men's wills, to make known that which was hidden and to make agreeable that which was unpleasant. That men are not so assisted has likewise its cause in themselves and not in God. (St. Augustine, "The Forgiveness and the Just Desert of Sins, and the Baptism of Infants", 2.17.26, [AD 412])"Do not be murmuring to each other; no one is able to come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draw him." A great attestation of grace! No one comes unless he is drawn. He draws one, and another He does not draw. Do not try to judge why He draws one and does not draw another, if you do not wish to err. Accept it at once, and understand. You are not yet drawn? Pray that you may be drawn. What are you saying about this brethren? "If we are drawn to Christ, we believe against our will; it is a matter of force being applied, not of the will being moved!" A man is able to come into the Church unwillingly, he is able to approach the altar unwillingly, he is able to receive the Sacrament unwillingly; but he is not able to believe except willingly. If we believed with the body, men might be made to believe against their will. But to believe is not something done with the body. ... So that no one may ask: "How do I believe willingly, if I am drawn," I tell you: it is not so much that you are drawn by will as by pleasure ... Moreover, if it was right of the poet to say, "Everyone is drawn by his own pleasure"; - not by necessity, but by pleasure; not by obligation, but by delight; - how much more surely ought we say that a man is drawn to Christ, when he delights in truth, when he delights in righteousness, when he delights in eternal life, all of which Christ is? (St. Augustine, "Homilies on John", 26.2, 4 [inter AD 416-417])
It seems St. Augustine believed the will is consulted, and that it in fact determines the outcome under the influence of grace. He was not a Calvinist.
Quite simply, he did not have the Holy Ghost (Acts 10.44), hence he did not have supernatural grace or supernatural faith, hence he was unregenerate and still in his sins. Peter promises Cornelius quite plainly that those "who believe in [Jesus] may receive forgiveness of sins." (Acts 10.43). But Cornelius was not yet forgiven, otherwise Peter's visit would have been superfluous. And the brethren later glorify God saying "Therefore to the gentiles also God has given repentance unto life." (Acts 11.18). Cornelius was quite plainly unregenerate, yet God calls him "devout and God-fearing" and notes the cause of his special blessing was his "prayer" and his "alms".
but the notion that Cornelius, whom Scripture calls a "devout" and "God-fearing" man in Acts 10:2, was Hell-bound prior to receiving the information that the God in whom he already trusted had indeed fulfilled His messianic promises
Okay, so your definition of regeneration does not involve reception of the Holy Spirit and forgiveness of sins, but can occur prior to that time? Now read St. Augustine's comments again:
"As, then, we ought not to depreciate a man's righteousness, which begins to exist before he is joined to the Church, as the righteousness of Cornelius began to exist before he was in the body of Christian men,--which righteousness was not thought worthless, or the angel would not have said to him, 'Thy prayers and thine alms are come up as a memorial before God;' nor did it yet suffice for his obtaining the kingdom of heaven, or he would not have been told to send to Peter ..." (St. Augustine, On Baptism, 4.21.29)
Doesn't sound very regenerate if he had not yet obtained the kingdom. This is no different from what St. John Chrysostom teaches:
See how great the virtue of alms, both in the former discourse, and here! There, it delivered from death temporal; here, from death eternal; and opened the gates of heaven. Such are the pains taken for the bringing of Cornelius to the faith, that both an angel is sent, and the Spirit works, and the chief of the Apostles is fetched to him, and such a vision is shown, and, in short, nothing is left undone. How many centurions were there not besides, and tribunes, and kings, and none of them obtained what this man did! (St. John Chrysostom, Homilies in Acts, 22 [AD 388])
If he was regenerate, why does St. John Chrysostom say he was "delivered from death eternal" by way of his alms causing St. Peter's visit? Why send for St. Peter to teach him the faith? Wouldn't he know it already? Isn't that in fact what you say here:
Now, it is true that, the Promised Messiah having come, it was fitting that those who had Faith in the Promises of God should be informed of the fulfillment of God's Promise; and God used Cornelius as a demonstration of the fact that this Good News should proceed also to the Gentiles
Sorry OP, but he did not have faith. You are just reading things into the text which are plainly not there in order to prop up your heresy. It says he was "devout and God-fearing" (Acts 10.2), but he did not have faith in Jesus Christ, which is why St. Peter preaches him the gospel (Acts. 10:34-43) Nor was the fulfillment of the prophets in Jesus unknown. Remember what St. Paul said to Festus and Agrippa? "... none of these things escaped him; for none of them happened in a corner." (Acts 26.26) St. Peter said it also to Cornelius. "You know what took place throughout Judea ..." (Acts 10.37). He knew it, but he did not yet believe, because to believe is a supernatural gift that can only come by hearing the Truth.
Now when you realize that the Old Testament Saints were regenerated prior to Baptism
At least for Jewish males, I believe it occurred at circumcision, and for females at their presentation in the Temple.
I asked JPII about that picture. It is a Scratch-n-Sniff thingie.
Seems like Omir (or whoever the other dude is) was showing JPII his "Middle East photo album" with the rich Corinthian leather binder. Omir insisted he smell the great forest green leather cover.
Now it turns out Omir tricked him and had a Koran inside. If you look closely JPII's expression is one of subtle surprise! He's smelling something other than rich Corinthian leather, something musty, stale and foul (reminiscent of camel droppings).
==
Rev's petition is still denied. And OP perhaps you need to rethink your question to Hermann.
OP: ***You tell me, Hermann -- does laying a fat wet sloppy pucker upon the SATANIC BIBLE (and I doubt that Belloc would be any more sparing in terms) count as Formal Public Heresy??***
After all, surely no pope would deliberately kiss a Koran knowing it's blasphemous content. Furthermore, Catholics worldwide would don sackcloth and ashes until such an action were renounced. Pope Piel I has formally announced...
Not Coming Soon:
No Koran kissing or sniffing
No clown or hula masses
No Altar-ettes doing New Age swirling dances and offering loaves of Wonder Bread
Pope Piel I
The Pocket Fisher of Men
I respectfully withdraw said application and thank the kind sister for standing up for an arminian heretic.
I love this man! What a way to start a book on the things of God but by laying down the Pimp hand of Smackdown on the unregenerated interloper. Those who love John Owen will immediately recognize this excerpt from the work "The Death of Death in the Death of Christ".
drstevej - you just knew that I would grab this one, huh?
Sort of like an employer telling a soon-to-be ex-employee "You are fired!" only to hear back from the exiting employee - "You can't fire me! I quit!".
Of course, I always wondered how that scenario jibed with:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will...
According to the Free Will Theorist, shouldn't the passage actually read: "Having acknowledged our demand unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ, the Praise Team, Prayer Counselors and the Missions Staff to Himself, according to our sovereign free will choice..."
That may very well explain why the Puritans used the Geneva Bible.
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