Exurge, Calvinisti, et judica causam tuam...

drstevej (Pope Piel I)

[xzins]

I thought you were doing one of those obeisance things to that Greek goddess, Hera.

A heratic.

(Remember how that little muscle right under her left eye would jump every now and then?)

[xzins]

Let's not go there with the "veracity of story not required" deal.

I've listened to Baptist pastors' sermon illustrations. :>)

(They are far too free with the first person singular pronoun in illustrations that come from "Zondervan's Anthology of Sermon Illustrations." )

[Gamecock]

Neither I, nor my spelling is infallible.....

As penance, I offer the following:

You must first deny the authenticity and full inspiration of the Holy Scripture before you can legitimately and truly deny election. (Spurgeon)

[Diamond]

Thanks you, dear xzins, for your response. I agree with you, believe it or not; no debate is necessary:^) (a little humor there)

"God does not show favoritism."

You're right: Romans 2:11, "there is no partiality with God." (I memorized Romans 2 before I got to Chapter 9.)

Here is the context:

⁷   to those who by ⁽¹²⁾ perseverance in doing good seek for ⁽¹³⁾ glory and honor and ⁽¹⁴⁾ immortality, ⁽¹⁵⁾ eternal life;
⁸   but to those who are ⁽¹⁶⁾ selfishly ambitious and ⁽¹⁷⁾ do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
⁹   There will be ⁽¹⁸⁾ tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew ⁽¹⁹⁾ first and also of the Greek,
¹⁰   but ⁽²⁰⁾ glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew ⁽²¹⁾ first and also to the Greek.
¹¹   For ⁽²²⁾ there is no partiality with God.
¹²   For all who have sinned ⁽²³⁾ without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;
¹³   for it is ⁽²⁴⁾ not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.

Deuteronomy 10
¹⁷   "⁽¹⁾ For the LORD your God is the God of gods and the ⁽²⁾ Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God ⁽³⁾ who does not show partiality nor ⁽⁴⁾ take a bribe.

The interpretation it seems to me is that God does not except bribes in exchange for favorable decisions.

A friend just sent me this:

"I like what Knox said to his Arminian friend that if he thanked God for his faith then he was a Calvinist. I imagine the conversation went something like this:

"Do you, sir, pray?"
"Why of course I pray?"
"When you pray do you thank God for your blessings received from Him?"
"Why of course I do."
"Is one of those blessings you thank Him for that wonderful faith you have in His Son, in His Son's death for you and for the wonderful trust you have in His saving work for you??
"Why of course I do."
"Then, sir, you are a Calvinist, though you know it not, for you thank Him for the trusting faith you find in yourself and take no credit for that faith. It is a gift for which you are grateful."
"Why yes, I am grateful for the faith, but it is I who have to have do the believing."
"Yes, so that is true. But you agree that the believing you do is a result of His gift to you."
"Yes, I believe, because He has given me a trusting faith but it is I who do the believing."
"Sir we do agree. We are the ones who must do the believing. But He is the One who must give us believing hearts."
"But I am no Calvinist sir, for a Calvinist believes our receiving of that faith is not our choice. We must decide to accept the gift of faith."
"So do you then, in your thanksgiving, say to our Father, "I thank you for everything except the decision I made to receive the fatih You have given to me. Father, I take credit for my own decision and you have had no part in me making this decision to receive this faith."
"NO, I have never prayed that way. My decision to receive faith was mine but I do not talk to our Father in that manner for in some way my decision was influenced so far by Him that I thank Him for that decision as well." "Well, now we agree again and you have become a Calvinist again."
"No, sir, I said I thank the Father for influencing me so that I made the decision I did to receive this faith but I made that decision not God."
"No we have a conundrum. You made the decision to receive faith but God influenced you to the point that you made the decision? Such an influence we Calvnists call irresistible grace. You were appointed by His providence to believe and so His 'influence' was such you came to believe. For others, not so elected, He has not extended this blessing."


Acts 13:48, "As many as had been appointed to eternal life believed"

Cordially,

[Gamecock]

I wondered where they got them....

[xzins]

I don't anyone who denies election. They just deny how it's accomplished, the particulars, etc.

I'd like to deny election to Howard Dean. Are you with me on that one??? :>)

[Gamecock]

On that I am 100% with you....

[xzins]

(correction) I don't THINK anyone who denies election. They just deny how it's accomplished, the particulars, etc.

I'd like to deny election to Howard Dean. Are you with me on that one??? :>)

Diamond, 1st paragraph for you. Quit writing books. You'll wear yourself out. See my tagline.

[xzins]

(correction 2...I've really gotta read these things..blush..) I don't KNOW anyone who denies election. They just deny how it's accomplished, the particulars, etc.

I'd like to deny election to Howard Dean. Are you with me on that one??? :>)

Diamond, 1st paragraph for you. Quit writing books. You'll wear yourself out. See my tagline.

[George W. Bush]

GWB, you are invited to join the GRPL. See post #311 for criteria. A favorite reformed quote is to be posted with your application for inclusion.

I'll choose a favorite.

"You see your whole heresy shipwrecked upon the misery of infants!"

(Augustine, OPUS IMPERFECTUM, 5,22 Pagels P 135)

Perhaps you're familiar with the account of Augustine's conflict with Julian over the doctrine of original sin which is most certainly a foundation of Augustine's views on total depravity and other matters modern churchmen would label as Calvinist. I think the case could be made that this Julian's challenge clarified Augustine's thinking. Augustine, and through him the churchmen of subsequent centuries, could no longer avoid the question.

Calvinists are the legitimate heirs of Augustine's most compelling theological thought.

[CCWoody]

Suffice to say that the bible directly says, "God does not show favoritism." ~ xzins

No, you are wrong. God clearly does have his favorites, as expressely declared to us in the Holy Writ:

Notwithstanding, the Lord set his delite in thy fathers to loue them, and did choose their seede after them, euen you aboue all people, as appeareth this day.
(Deu 10:15 GB)

You onely haue I knowen of all the families of the earth: therefore I will visite you for all your iniquities.
(Amo 3:2 GB)

Woody. (an apple of God's eye)

Ioshua made warre long time with all those Kings, Neither was there any citie that made peace with the children of Israel, saue those Hiuites that inhabited Gibeon: all other they tooke by battell. For it came of the Lord, to harden their heartes that they shoulde come against Israel in battell to the intent that they shoulde destroye them vtterly, and shewe them no mercie, but that they shoulde bring them to nought: as the Lord had commanded Moses. (Jos 11:18-20 GB)

[George W. Bush]

I forget to mention in my previous reply that I am applying for the position of Saint Christopher of the Historic Infallibility of Mother Church.

About statues of St. Christopher

[CCWoody]

Well, who would'a thunk it, the NIV really does use the word "favoritism."

Chalk it up to one more reason not to like the NIV.

[xzins]

really does use the word "favoritism."


there ya go

[xzins]

Exodus 23:3
and do not show favoritism to a poor man in his lawsuit.
(Whole Chapter: Exodus 23 In context: Exodus 23:2-4)


Leviticus 19:15
" 'Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly.
(Whole Chapter: Leviticus 19 In context: Leviticus 19:14-16)


Acts 10:34
Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism
(Whole Chapter: Acts 10 In context: Acts 10:33-35)


Romans 2:11
For God does not show favoritism.
(Whole Chapter: Romans 2 In context: Romans 2:10-12)


Ephesians 6:9
And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.
(Whole Chapter: Ephesians 6 In context: Ephesians 6:8-10)


Colossians 3:25
Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for his wrong, and there is no favoritism.
(Whole Chapter: Colossians 3 In context: Colossians 3:24-26)


1 Timothy 5:21
I charge you, in the sight of God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels, to keep these instructions without partiality, and to do nothing out of favoritism.
(Whole Chapter: 1 Timothy 5 In context: 1 Timothy 5:20-22)


James 2:1
My brothers, as believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ, don't show favoritism.
(Whole Chapter: James 2 In context: James 2:1-2)


James 2:9
But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers.
(Whole Chapter: James 2 In context: James 2:8-10)

[jude24]

I'm a six-pointer after the mould of John Piper. His sixth point is that God's ultimate end in election and reprobation is his own glory; in other words, God could not have been better glorified by any other possible combination of events.

[Diamond]

On Howie Dean I agree. He's a nutcase.

I'm not sure what you mean by, "first parapraph...quit writing books." I've never written a book, except the book of my life, and that alone is enough to have almost worn me out. :^)

Cordially,

[xzins]

We have renowned bookwriters around here. Posts are veritable tomes. Win is Ortho Presby, but in the Place position is the viceroy of verbosity, Jean Chauvin. Our Show candidate is a Texan with a loooonnnngggg story to tell, CCWoody!

They write more than I can read, so I read them in installments. I'm backed up for years on all but OP, who always receives an immediate read because, for some God-only-knows reason, I can follow his logic.

[CCWoody]

And how many of those verse you cite are talking about the Lord showing favoritism to groups of people? The problem here is that you are still in the horrible Arminian error of violently wrenching scriptures out of their context to make them teach what they clearly don't teach.

If the LORD shows no favoritism of any kind, any where, any place, to any one, then you need to start yanking scriptures out of your Bible. You are free to start with these:

• Notwithstanding, the Lord set his delite in thy fathers to loue them, and did choose their seede after them, euen you aboue all people, as appeareth this day.
  (Deu 10:15 GB)
• You onely haue I knowen of all the families of the earth: therefore I will visite you for all your iniquities.
  (Amo 3:2 GB)
• Ioshua made warre long time with all those Kings, Neither was there any citie that made peace with the children of Israel, saue those Hiuites that inhabited Gibeon: all other they tooke by battell. For it came of the Lord, to harden their heartes that they shoulde come against Israel in battell to the intent that they shoulde destroye them vtterly, and shewe them no mercie, but that they shoulde bring them to nought: as the Lord had commanded Moses.
  (Jos 11:18-20 GB)

The sad part here is that you are still stuck in an anthroprocentric mindset with your scriptural approach. God clearly shows mercy to some, whereas others, He shows no mercy. Is this not the very definition of favoritism?

Your Romans 2 citation is particularly laughable for it actually declares that God does not show any LEGAL favoritism. Thus, there are not degrees of illumination, whereby, Sam, who heard the full gospel and rejected it is damned, but Neil, who never heard the gospel, but basically lived a good life, is saved. Romans 2 clearly tells that the same identical LEGAL standard applies to all. Unless a person seeks after the whole law by faith in the LORD, he will perish. Unless a person receives the mercy and grace of God, he will surely perish.

Ah, but we have already seen that God covenanted with only some to provide them with even the illuminating means to know how to seek after mercy and grace by faith in the LORD. And, that, my friend is clearly favoritism.

So, if you should respond, please do not attempt to pit any more scriptures against the ones I have already posted. Address them directly.

Thanks,
Woody.

[xzins]

What's the condensed version, Woody?