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To: Non-Sequitur
All your post does is to support what has been said all along. Lincoln's intention was to land food only unless that action was opposed by the confederate forces.

Based on that single order for the "hiring of the ships", one could incorrectly think that and be deceived. This one order has often been quoted by supporters of that myth, and that is why I posted it followed by the order in post 434, which reveals the true and stated mission. I presented them as a pair to expose that myth for what it was, a myth. The second order is but one that very clearly shows the true purpose of the mission.

He said as much in letters to Governor Pickens and Major Anderson, and Wells is repeating those instructions here with orders to support the landing of supplies if opposed.

He lied. Read the second order where it is revealed what the true and exact nature of the mission was. The first order only deals with the "hiring of the ships", and the real mission was not revealed in that order. That is common military practice. Lincoln lied.

Had Davis not chosen to begin a war then the status quo would have been maintained and a peaceful resolution might have been achieved. But that didn't suit his purposes I guess.

LOL - It was Lincoln who did not want a peaceful resolution, and that is why he sent US Agent Fox to devise and lead a mission guaranteed to cause an incident sufficent for his warmongering purposes.

498 posted on 01/29/2003 12:21:32 PM PST by thatdewd (nam et ipsa scientia potestas est)
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To: thatdewd
He lied. Read the second order where it is revealed what the true and exact nature of the mission was. The first order only deals with the "hiring of the ships", and the real mission was not revealed in that order. That is common military practice. Lincoln lied.

Why would he lie?

General Scott told President Lincoln that 20,000 troops would be required to take the town. The whole U.S. Army had not so many men. What could President Lincoln possibly gain by lying?

Can you point out the descrepancies you see in what you posted, and what the clerk Chew delivered to Governor Pickens:

Washington, April 6. 1861

Sir--

You will proceed directly to Charleston, South Carolina; and if, on your arrival there, the flag of the United States shall be flying over Fort-Sumpter, and the Fort shall not have been attacked, you will procure an interview with Gov. Pickens, and read to him as follows: "I am directed by the President of the United States to notify you to expect an attempt will be made to supply Fort-Sumpter with provisions only; and that, if such attempt be not resisted, no effort to throw in men, arms, or amunition, without will be made, without further notice, or in case of an attack upon the Fort"

After you shall have read this to Governor Pickens, deliver to him the copy of it herein enclosed, and retain this letter yourself--

But if, on your arrival at Charleston, you shall ascertain that Fort-Sumpter shall have been already evacuated, or surrendered, by the United States force; or, shall have been attacked by an opposing force, you will seek no interview with Gov. Pickens, but return here forthwith-- [On Following Sheet:]

I am directed by the President of the United States to notify you to expect an attempt will be made to supply Fort-Sumpter with provisions only; and that, if such attempt be not resisted, no effort to throw in men, arms, or amunition will be made, without further notice, or in case of an attack upon the Fort--

[Endorsed on Envelope by Lincoln:]

President Lincoln didn't lie. He had no earthly reason to.

Attempts to besmirch his memory will always founder on the record.

Walt

499 posted on 01/29/2003 12:36:10 PM PST by WhiskeyPapa (To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men)
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To: thatdewd
It was Lincoln who did not want a peaceful resolution...

You are talking about a time frame of about a month after he promised to support a constitutional amendment protecting slavery in the states.

How does that square with war mongering?

Walt

500 posted on 01/29/2003 12:39:56 PM PST by WhiskeyPapa (To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men)
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To: thatdewd
I presented them as a pair to expose that myth for what it was, a myth.

You posted your interpretation of two orders which do not conflict with each other. Munitions and reinforcements would be landed only if the supply attempt was opposed.

He lied. Read the second order where it is revealed what the true and exact nature of the mission was.

Why would he lie to Major Anderson? He told him the same thing he told Governor Pickens, that an attempt to land supplies would be made and that reinforcements and munitions would be landed only if the mission was opposed.

It was Lincoln who did not want a peaceful resolution, and that is why he sent US Agent Fox to devise and lead a mission guaranteed to cause an incident sufficent for his warmongering purposes.

Sure, that's why he made sure that Pickens knew about it ahead of time. But this whole scheme that you've concocted would have fallen apart if Davis hadn't fired on Sumter. Pretty stupid of Jeff, wasn't it?

505 posted on 01/29/2003 1:01:31 PM PST by Non-Sequitur
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