Posted on 01/23/2003 6:06:25 PM PST by one2many
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Then you admit that The Lincoln invaded the south and coerced his obedience.
You can't invade your own country, so your statement is false.
He did enforce obedience to the national government, that is for sure.
Walt
Only if your calender features a mirror within it, Walt. The rebels began raising an army even before President Lincoln took office.
And on the same note, The Lincoln began plotting the retaking of southern forts by military force before he took office.
And that gun was held opposite of another in the hands of [President] Lincoln, who sought to deny any separation, peaceful or not, by any means necessary.
Lincoln applied the war power of the government in direct response to treason and revolution. He said as much:
"The laws of the United States must be executed-- the President has no discretionary power on the subject -- his duty is emphatically pronounced in the Constitution."
Walt
The Republican platform was maintenance of the Union.
Walt
Only those within the boundaries of the confederate states. The south paid taxes and built those things too, Walt. It's pure nonsense to suggest that everything belonging to the federal government in 1860 was in fact really the exclusive domain of the yankee states in that government, thereby giving them alone ownership of it when the country split in 1861. The confederates recognized this and sought to retain that which was in their borders - a perfectly fair formula for both sides. In some cases, they even offered to compensate the yankees for those installations just to ease the transition. The Lincoln and his cronies sought a different solution though. Like a mohammedan on a desert sand mound, they claimed it all as their own - permanently - and sought to achieve that claim by the sword.
He applied it to coerce political obedience from dissenting states. If you have no problem with that, you are towing a position of "might makes right." I cannot stop you from advocating that concept - only warn you of its problematic consequences.
And in response to that non-response of yours, the confederate position was southern independence.
He applied it to coerce political obedience from dissenting states. If you have no problem with that, you are towing a position of "might makes right."
If you don't ascribe to the use of power, you won't mind when an Al Qaeda operative cuts your throat.
Walt
He applied it to coerce political obedience from dissenting states.
Yep. It worked, too.
But states are an abstraction. Evil men wanted to extend and perptuate slavery. That's whose side you are taking. That's who got slam dunked by the federal government.
Walt
I ascribe to the use of power for just means, including self defense. That differs significantly from your position, which seems to tolerate it under any circumstances including those of coercion and invasion and in doing so ammounts to nothing more than right determined by the assertion of force.
Walt
I ascribe to the use of power for just means, including self defense.
Then you can't possibly fault the federal government, or President Lincoln.
Walt
To the participants in 1861, the states were a tangible existing political entity.
Evil men wanted to extend and perptuate slavery.
Some did. Even The Lincoln pushed a measure to perpetuate it. Others wished for its end by peaceful means. And other evil men wanted to extend and perpetuate their own power by subjugating the people who opposed it. The same Lincoln who sought to perpetuate slavery by amendment sought to do this evil as well. He is the same entity you worship, Walt.
History does say otherwise. On April 10 Leory Walker, the secretary of war for The Davis cabinet, sent word to Beauregard that he was to demand that Sumter be evacuated immediately, and if Anderson refused then Beauregard was to 'proceed in such manner as you determine to reduce it." That was several days before the Harriet Lane arrived off the harbor.
The events were therefore intwined together to a degree that is likely beyond the scope of your mental capacity.
In your humble opinion?
Much to the contrary. The Lincoln used force for immoral means and on the offensive. He did so to subjugate and coerce other people, resulting in great and sinful wrongs being committed against those people and the blood of untold innocents being spilled.
Statements such as that only serve to demonstrate and amplify my contention that you have radically disconnected yourself from even the most basic forms of reality.
You know why he did that? Because the confederates recieved word of The Lincoln's war fleet that was en route to Sumter for military action. When one of the expected participants in that action, the Harriet Lane, impeded access to the harbor, Beauregard initiated the preparations for attack.
In your humble opinion?
No, not really. The deficiencies in your mental ability on threads such as these has been the subject of commentaries by untold many participants over the course of your posting here.
That is a typical neo-reb half truth. President Lincoln was faced with something of a situation. Seven states had already thrown down the national authority. President Lincoln was always ready to stop shooting and start talking. It was the slave power that pushed things to the limit.
Lincoln's bedrock position was that there be no expansion of slavery. He knew slavery would die if it were restricted. The rebels knew it too. That is why the Democratic platform in 1860 advocated securing Cuba -- to help keep the institution profitable and viable for the slave breeders.
It is grotesque to defend them.
Walt
Like stand waite and Aurelius and, of course, yourself? My goodness, to think that I would have my mental abilities questioned by the likes of y'all. Whatever will I do now?
Source please, and if you don't mind, also include any known responses to the offer. Thanks.
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