Who Were The Celts?

Ibiblio.org ^ | unknown

[blam]

Read this thread. Dr Elizabeth Barber, in her book, The Mummies Of Urumchi,connect these folks to the Celts of Hallstadt, Austria.
Professor Victor Mair, in his book, The Tarim Mummies, Believes these people spoke Tocharian (an Indo-European language) and is closest related to an ancient form of Celtic languages.

Genetic Testing Awkward Truth About Xinjiang's Famous Mummies (Caucasian)

[Drammach]

Thanks for the link.. I had read that, and was wondering about it..
Cronos had mentioned runic in an earlier post, (last year I guess) and I had been wondering about a link to the Celts and runic.. whether runic had close ties to the Celts..

So, here are the Celts, invading Etruscan lands, and what do I find about Runic?

Note the tree's descent is: Etruscan, N. Italic, Runic-Germanic... (This is the "Elder" runic.)
Then it splits into "Younger" runic, and A.S.(Anglo-Saxon) Runic..

Source link

The (runic) article places it's beginnings about 200 BCE...

The Celtic origins article places the Celts in Etruscan territories about 400 BCE..
The Xinjiang Mummies article is talking about a people that existed in that area from about 2,000 BCE to 1,000 BCE.. quite a time frame..
Then we have Yingpan man, in apparent greek style death mask, and western burial garb, a contemporary of the Celts, Etruscans and Romans at the time of the Po Valley invasions.. approximately 2,000 years ago..

It would appear that while some "proto celts" remained in the near east, (Xinjiang, Yingpan) the influx of asain and mongoloid ( is there distinction there? I think there is.. ) caused at least SOME celts to migrate west.. some probably went West toward the Bosphorus straits and Bulgaria, and met the Etruscans, some went northwest, through the Caucasus Mts, into Russia, Ukraine, Romania, etc.. spreading throughout europe..

At this point I'm blathering, but I now see a tie-in with The Celts, and Runic forms.. and I can see their origins... Etruscan and N. Italic..
A culture with no tradition of written language meets a "civilization" WITH written language..

Result, a bastardised form of writing made to conform to an already existing language form..
A concept so alien to the culture it was perceived, at least initially, as having "magical" properties..

Well I'll leave it there, and let you guys tear my little theory apart..
Please,.. Be Gentle.. And Respect Me in the morning..

[blam]

"Please,.. Be Gentle.. And Respect Me in the morning.."

Ah, come on...let's have one more for the road.

If we are identifing the Celts as the tall red-headed people then...the Melanisians have Cain and Abel type myths about tall red-headed people (Professor Stephen Oppenheimer).

[blam]

"The Xinjiang Mummies article is talking about a people that existed in that area from about 2,000 BCE to 1,000 BCE.. quite a time frame.."

My theory is that they migrated up the river valleys of Asia from Sundaland when it went underwater at the end of the Ice Age...across the steppes and into Europe.

[blam]

Some left Sundaland in ships/boats and wound up in North America:

Who Were The Si-Te-Cah?

[MacDorcha]

I have read Mummies of Urumchi. (I have a wonderful girlfriend :)

Looked for Tarim Mummies. Little shy one cash right now though.

It IS nice to see that China allowed the testing though. They wouldn't for a long time I know.

[Drammach]

If we are identifing the Celts as the tall red-headed people then...

I believe the Red haired ones are predecessors to the blonde haired ones.. ( recessive genes causing the blonde hair )

The red hair characteristic is found a little more in certain areas of europe like Germany, and of course, Ireland and Northern England..
It tends to be a little less in the Scandinavian nations, where the blond hair is more prevalent..but I would guess that red hair occurs there more often than not..

From what little archaological evidence we have so far, I would think that red hair was predominant among the "proto-celts", with the occassional blonde, definitely aryan, not meditteranean... ( typical roman - greek - egyptian? )

Possibly "Aegean" would be a more apt description..of the original peoples of the meditteranean basin.....
I recall reading somewhere, (long ago) that they were originally olive skinned, almond eyed, black hair, well proportioned, but not very tall..
It was theorized that the modern meditteranean people is the result of the meeting of "northern" invaders, settlers, population influxes, however one wants to describe it..
Having seen pictures of the murals at Minos and Acriterae (sp?) I believe this to be an accurate depiction..

Incidentally, this falls into line with the description of certain characteristics of both asians and polynesians as well, with the possible exception of actual skin tone..
That would be explained both by both the mixing of original proto-celts, original mongoloids, ( so-called "red" skinned, ancestors to American Indians ) and possibly another group.. the Aegeans, which may be descended from that first civilisation you have conjectured about that left what is now Indonesia at the end of the Ice Age..

This is the stuff that has always fascinated me about archeology and anthropology..
The initial movements and migrations of these various groups of mankind..
Blame Robert E. Howard.. He's the one that piqued my interest in this sort of stuff..

[Drammach]

When I was writing my last, I hadn't read this one yet..

Yes, I was thinking the same basic idea, but not necessarilly the celts..
I think another group came from Sundaland..
Those "olive skinned, almond eyed" ones..

[Drammach]

Si-Te-Cah..

I can't remember the name, but we have the articles about what could very well have been celts (or picts) crossing the atlantic from possibly spain or Libya, and colonizing the east coast of america sometime after the end of the ice age.

I have surmised in at least one of those posts about the possibility ( logical assumption ) that a sea-faring race that could make it to the east coast would not stop there..
They would follow the coast north, and South, around the florida penensula, along the gulf coast, possibly continue up the Rio Grande, and find themselves well within range of the Pacific coast..
Or, following the coast of Mexico, find one of those narrow stretches of land that would give access by land crossing to the pacific.. ( also creating legends about strange men in boats coming to fullfill prophecy..)
Or, simply moving west from the gulf into california..
The weather was different then, the land probably had sufficient water, and plenty of game..
They had several thousand years without competition from bering straits immigrants... more than enough time..
They would have been there to "greet" the first wave..

Likewise, Pacific immigration is plausible as well, either from Siberia, or from Northern Japan..( Ainu )
Either way, we can surmise they were a sea-faring race..
The "Coracle" is probably very ancient, much older than presently thought.. ( common to Ireland and the British Isles )

My mind wanders.. I will stop now..

[blam]

"Yes, I was thinking the same basic idea, but not necessarilly the celts.. I think another group came from Sundaland.. Those "olive skinned, almond eyed" ones.."

I believe the Jomon/Ainu group (Kennewick Man/Spirit Cave Man) dominated most of Asia in prehistoric times and today's modern Asians and Caucasians split from this group. The oldest undisputed Mongoloid skeleton ever found is only 10k years old. (Professor Stephen Oppenheimer) The oldest Jomon skeleton ever found is 13k years old and was found in Japan

Marvin Harris (bless his soul) got me interested in anthropology. I read his book, Our Kind, and was hooked.

[SaltyJoe]

Tattooed and naked warrior ping

[blam]

Maybe your 'olive-skinned' people:

The Relationship Between The Basque And Ainu

[blam]

"I can't remember the name, but we have the articles about what could very well have been celts (or picts) crossing the atlantic from possibly spain or Libya, and colonizing the east coast of america sometime after the end of the ice age. "

The Red Paint People? Connection to Denmark and North America.

Here's some others.

Bye, Bye Beringia (8,000 Year Old Site In Florida)

[blam]

"They would follow the coast north, and South, around the florida penensula, along the gulf coast, possibly continue up the Rio Grande, and find themselves well within range of the Pacific coast."

Professor Stephen Oppenheimer, in his book, Eden In The East, believes these people came out of Sundaland landed on the west coast and made their way east. He also has DNA evidence that they we probably the original Sumerians, Egyptians and etc.

Dr Robert Schoch, in his book, Voyages Of The Pyramid Builders, echoes a similar theme. The oldest bronze smeltering site ever discovered is in Thailand.

[Pharmboy]

Thanks! Great site...I'm doing genetic testing on myself now and hoping to find some Pictish blood!

[Docbarleypop]

but the dynasty lives on in my sweater that is named "backhair"

[Cronos]

There were no Romans--no such thing--everyone was local people.

The Romans slaughtered the Etruscans and settled in Colonies there. Ditto for the south of Italy and after they slaughtered the Gauls they did the same in France. in Spain they mingled with the local.s

[Cronos]

"Celts are not even a race, they are a group of peoples who spoke related languages." Same with the Indians, Egyptians, Greeks, Romans...

Correct -- Indians, Egyptians, Greeks etc. are not individual races. Indians, Iranis and Greeks and Celts etc are all part of the Indo-German/Aryan race. Egyptians are a mix of Semitic and Ethiopian/Nubian peoples.

[Cronos]

Their connection (and reason for the shared name) could be due to the Aryans of before either. The Picts could be seperatists from the same tribe that went to India all those years ago. One on either side of the caucus mountains

Actually based on the dispersal of peoples and on linguistics, I'm more inclined to believe that the INdo-Europeans originated in the region between north-western India, Eastern Persia and Central Asia with the Iranis being the most 'pure' Indo-Europeans. This is borne out by the migrations of the Indo-Europeans to Europe (first the Mitanni then the Hittites around 2000 B.C.) also -- the 'invasion' of India seems increasingly a myth -- there are no traces of massacres in the cities of Mohenjo-daro and Harappa. THe Indo-Europeans seem to have moved into India just like the Amorites did in Sumeria -- shepherds, cattle-herders slowly moving into civilised areas -- like Mexicans moving into America, slowly the natives were replaced.

[Cronos]

I'm sorry, I see no evidence for the peoples in WEstern China to have been 'proto-Celts'. I can agree that they were 'Indo-European' peoples but how can you call them proto-Celts????