Elizabeth Smart Thread, 9/26/02 to ???

[stlnative]

NEW THREAD - PING WHOM EVER YOU LIKE - I DON'T PING ANYMORE - SORRY

[Devil_Anse]

It's possible that Dixon is the one, although we haven't seen any tie-in to him at this point. But as for the motorcycle part, I just can't believe anyone would roar away on a motorcycle carrying Elizabeth in her red pajamas, riding down streets that were quiet b/c it was the middle of the night, thus making them a sitting duck to be noticed by police who are prowling around at all hours.

Plus, with a motorcycle, it would be too easy for Elizabeth to try to jump off during a slowdown or stop.

Somewhere along the line, Elizabeth has to have been transported in a car or van or SUV.

BTW, if Elizabeth went willingly, I believe it was b/c she believed she'd be back soon. If there was no threatening man, somewhere outside her house, she met up with such a person, either by chance or b/c she mistakenly thought the person wouldn't harm her. If there was a threatening man, then that's who harmed her.

I would be much more willing to believe Elizabeth went voluntarily if there were anything of hers missing besides her red pajamas and her running shoes.

[Sherlock]

How unfair that it was an innocent little girl who got killed instead.

I agree and think if it weren't for the lifestyle of the parents Danielle would still be alive today. Thanks for the info you posted on Westerfield the other night. I thought the part about his ex-wife seeing him often come in the house with binoculars late at night was most bizarre.

[Devil_Anse]

Mary Katherine might have fallen asleep while cowering in her bed, given the hour.

But I think it's more likely that she mistook the time that it happened, or didn't correctly estimate how long she'd waited. OR something that was said made her think Elizabeth would be coming back, and she was waiting for Elizabeth to come back.

[Sherlock]

So you think some Mormon bishop ran into her 2 days earlier jogging and somehow managed to find out where her bedroom was in her house and slipped in her bedroom in the middle of the night with a pistol (which happens to be Ricci's M.O. exactly from the middle of the night burglary next door to the Smarts and the bank robbery) and kidnapped her at gunpoint? Or do you think the Smart parents made up this story of the pistol which just happens to fit in exactly with Ricci's M.O.? Don't you think it's more likely this was one of Ricci's ex-con dirtballs that got the floorplan, the key, the pistol, and the idea from his good buddy that bragged about how easy it would be to burglarize this place, all the easy pickins he talked about and all? What do you think, logically, varina?

[varina davis]

would be much more willing to believe Elizabeth went voluntarily if there were anything of hers missing besides her red pajamas and her running shoes.

I'll say it again....she could have previously stashed other clothes, etc. somewhere else prior to leaving June 5.

[Devil_Anse]

Thank goodness someone at least remembers that thing about Ricci and his drug rehab! I know I discussed it with people on another forum, on about June 26.

It's possible that the actual scoop was: Ricci was supposed to have been attending drug rehab or drug testing, and he wasn't going every time he was supposed to. That is certainly a very common occurence with parolees or probationers in the criminal justice system. This bit about his missing drug rehab sessions/testing sessions may have somehow been misunderstood by someone on TV, as his having told POLICE that he was at drug counseling/testing on the morning of June 5.

I feel sure that Ricci was required to go to something beyond AA and/or NA, although they probably encouraged him to go to those too. Probation/parole officers and judges can't just tell someone to just attend AA or NA, b/c there is no way to verify if the person ever goes, b/c AA and NA refuse (for good reason) to ever tell anyone who attends their meetings.

I also thought that Ricci had at first told the police he was out with friends on the night of June 4. I'm still looking for where I got that notion.

[freedox]

Devil, I said "such a plan"......I was not specifically agreeing with varina's motorcycle scenario. As for your comments on Dixon......you're the one who included him, not me.

[varina davis]

Mary Katherine might have fallen asleep while cowering in her bed, given the hour.

But I think it's more likely that she mistook the time that it happened, or didn't correctly estimate how long she'd waited. OR something that was said made her think Elizabeth would be coming back, and she was waiting for Elizabeth to come back.

OR...she didn't actually wait long at all. And there was much scurrying about long before anyone called anybody.

[Devil_Anse]

Dr. Charles Smart lives near ex-bishop Dixon, right?

But doesn't Dr. Charles Smart also live just around the corner from Ed and Lois? Wouldn't this mean Dixon lived close to Ed and Lois?

[varina davis]

Dr. Charles Smart lives near ex-bishop Dixon, right? According to map checks, the ward house where Dixon was bishop is located approximately 8 miles from the Myron Francom Home and the Charles Smart home. Roughly a 19 to 20 + minute drive to either. How long it would take to jog depends on the athletic skills of those jogging.

[Sherlock]

I remember early reports that Ricci's parole officer had just found out a few weeks before the kidnapping that Ricci wasn't attending the drug program he was supposed to be in and he had told Ricci if he didn't get back on the program he was going back to jail. In other words, he knew he was using and was giving him one warning to give it up. So Ricci knew he was headed back to prison since it probably wasn't likely he could just quit the drugs at will so why not a final fling with his buddies before going back up the river.

[Utah Girl]

Here is the link, I"m sorry, I was going to link, and forgot to. It is from the Deseret News. Ex-LDS Bishop Appears in Court

[varina davis]

So Ricci knew he was headed back to prison since it probably wasn't likely he could just quit the drugs at will so why not a final fling with his buddies before going back up the river.

The late Richard Ricci is irrelevent to this case and was from the beginning.

[Utah Girl]

No, we had a big discussion on the location of this ex-bishop vs where the Smarts live. I think someone even tracked down where Lois Smart's parents live, and tried to compare the addresses. If I remember correctly, Foothill Blvd separates the two area, they're 10-20 blocks away, uphill (the grandparents.) The Smarts live at least 20 minutes away by car from the neighborhood this guy would have been bishop over.

[Utah Girl]

Thanks so much. I knew the SL Tribune was wrong when I first read the article, but couldn't find anything to corroborate my memory. Thanks for posting that information for me.

[Sherlock]

This is from an article I came across today:

Police investigating Elizabeth Smart's disappearance arrested Ricci on June 14 for allegedly violating that parole by committing an April 4, 2001, burglary, possessing alcohol and failing to complete a treatment program.

[Devil_Anse]

Thanks for the article(s) about the date of the Riccis' marriage. I knew I'd heard at first that they were married Valentine's Day 2001, then I heard they were married Valentine's Day 2002.

Poor Mrs. Morse. She seems rather clueless. I picture her as not very bright, but well-meaning. After that last LKL interview, I also got the impression that her daughter Angela is not the brightest bulb on the tree.

I remember talking a long time ago to a client who was having problems with her ex. He had come to her house, trying to beat down the door. The police wouldn't take her seriously when she called them, b/c she herself didn't exactly have such a good track record. I ended up talking to the police in the middle of the night, telling them that this man was really a threat, and finally they did cart him off to jail.

Later when I talked to the client again, she said, "he just wants to get up in here, b/c I have a nice place to live now, and he doesn't. He's just trying to get that roof over his head, then he'll get in here and elect himself boss of the house--even though it's MY house, and I got it w/o any help from him!" Another time, while the ex was doing time for some petty offense in the City Jail, I told her, well, at least he's locked up. She replied, "oh, he doesn't mind, I'll bet. After all, as he once told me, you get 'three hots and a cot' when you're in jail."

This came to mind when I realized that Ricci had left jail (maybe wearing the famous get-out-of-prison-issue suit of clothes) and just had to re-enter society and get on his feet. It's a sure thing that he had to start from nothing financially. It occurred to me that when he met this nice, attractive, unattached woman, Angela, he probably thought he'd died and gone to heaven. She even came complete with her own roof! He got a woman and a place to live. Not a bad deal.

[Sherlock]

The late Richard Ricci is irrelevent to this case and was from the beginning.

Your denial in this point is the fundamental reason you and the others that think the way you do are blown about between the ludicrous scenarios you embrace.

[Utah Girl]

The SLPD asked the Smarts not to ask Mary Katherine about that evening, but if she wanted to talk about it, to let her do so. Pretty SOP in these situations, from what child psychologists have said. I'll go hunt down the article from the child psychologists that said children want to please their parents and adults and will pick up clues on how they should answer. I can remember this because Cynthia Smart Owens said that they all wanted to sit down and hold Mary Katherine and gently ask her what happened that night, and they were asked not to by the SLPD. I'm not sure about the restrictions now. I'm sure the prosecuting attorneys want to keep the potential testimony as untainted as possible, but after this long, who knows.

[Devil_Anse]

Yes, someone posted an article which states that Tom was quoted as saying Ed called him at 3:30 a.m. We've heard over and over that the call to police supposedly was logged at 4:01 a.m.

Doesn't it just figure that it is Tom who once again throws the wrench into the machinery--casting suspicion on what his brother really did that night. But however that discrepancy in time came about, it's out there!