Elizabeth Smart Thread, 9/26/02 to ???

[freedox]

Well, Jolly, I'm not sure just what "theory" of mine you're saying has been blown out of the water. Chief Dinse himself said that Ed Smart should have been informed of Ricci's criminal history by the officers investigating the theft. Here's the direct quote from the article, in case you missed it:

"Officers should have passed along whatever they may have discovered about Ricci's criminal past, Dinse said."

[scaredkat]

My opinion on the SL Article........

"I just hugged her," he said. "I held her . . . I wasn't going to let her go."

**I wonder what it is that he wanted to say to her? **

Ed Smart believes the intruder intended to abduct Elizabeth, who he said is a heavy sleeper and likely would not have awakened unless touched. Besides, he said, there were no valuables in her bedroom.

**If she is a heavy sleeper that would rule out the theory that it’s a theft gone bad because Elizabeth woke up and caught him.**

"It had to have been a [planned] kidnapping," Smart insisted. "It was either a ransom [plot] that blew up with all the [ensuing] attention, or somebody handed Elizabeth off." A kidnapper might still be waiting for the media frenzy to subside before issug a ransom demand, he said.

**Isn’t that INteresting he would state someone handed her off.**

Speaking of a potential ransom, Smart said: "We would do whatever it takes to get her back."

**Hoping that someone has been kidnapped and held for ransome is a lot better than thinking of abduction. There was never a ransom there was never a kidnapping, This was an abduction! Abduction is when someone is taken and you never hear anything from the abductor. He doesn’t care what the family thinks he just wanted Elizabeth. It’s still just as bad but kidnapping takes you in one avenue while abduction takes you in another direction. How does Ed know this was a kidnapping if there was no ransom**

Meanwhile, Smart worries that the now-10-year-old Mary Katherine, the lone witness to her sister's abduction, has not dealt with emotions stemming from that night. The younger girl acts "almost like it never happened," he said softly.

**I think she is being treated like nothing happened. I am sure she has tried her best in remembering for the police but remember we don’t know what has really been said.**

That landing squeaks, Smart said, because of his childrens' habit of leaping over the top two steps, and anyone entering Elizabeth's room would have had to navigate it. "I can't believe that I didn't hear [the squeak]. It just -- it drives me nuts."

**I could only think who knows about this squeak?**

Then, Smart recalled: "Mary Katherine came [downstairs] and said, 'You're not going to find her. A man took her.' "

**Are you not listening to your daughter? Don’t you believe her? Why not?????? Is there a cry wolf story we don’t know about?**

With officers on the way, Smart ran across the street to a home where there had been an attempted abduction years before. Moving through "a blur," Smart warned his neighbors to check their children, he said.

**Why oh why are you worring about others you should be worrying about Elizabeth. I can see you going and asking for help, but I wouldn’t even do that. I would be calling the police and not hanging up until they arrive. You never know how you would react, but I would have to question why you would leave your home and yard to waste time on someone else. I would instantly be looking for clues as to where they went what grass has been just walked on or even the dirt. I would be listening to the night air. It just seems there was a want and need for confusion.**

The first call was to Suann Adams, a family friend living nearby. She and her husband arrived within minutes and found a lone police car, she said. One officer sat inside and gave them permission to enter the home. Another patrolman stood in the kitchen

**Thanks for answering the questions that keep cropping up on the thread. I think that will help them.**

Adams dismissed reports that arriving officers found more than a dozen people in the home, trampling through the crime scene and hindering the investigation. "It's not like Ed went out and called a bunch of high school kids," she said. "These are responble adults, who aren't going to put their handprints all over everything."

**You may not put your fingerprints on the walls, but what about the staircase railing, on counters, and doors. How many people touched the door knob to Elizabeths room, the the door and wall. Anything and everything in the kitchen and don’t forget the carpet, all of your feet tramped all over it. Adults should have known to stay out of the house! What about the garage? When did that door come down? Was someone hiding in there for an amount of time? How many stepped in there?**

Many only came by briefly, then went to check all-night convenience stores and restaurants in the hope Elizabeth hadn't gotten far, Adams said.

**It’s good to check everywhere, but I think I would be on the streets finding lone cars, My first thought would be immigration canyon then any street or freeway. Has Elizabeth snuck out before?**

Salt Lake City Police Chief Rick Dinse stands by the initial police report that arriving officers found a number of the Smarts' neighbors searching inside and outside the house. But he acknowledged that police "didn't do a good job of securing the scene

**Once someone is let into the house its over for evidence. It would be thrown out of court so fast it would make your head spin. It would only make the LE want to watch the going ons in the house all the more.**

"But remember," Dinse continued, "at the very beginning, these officers were trying to determine what sort of case they had."

** HMMMM so the police are even confused? Well then, what was it, runaway, abduction, or kidnapping must have been a lot of confusion for the police to not be sure. Just what was stated on the 911 tape, obviously not MY DAUGHTERS BEEN KIDNAPPED AT GUNPOINT!**

As far as the identity of the kidnapper, the Smart family suspects career criminal Richard Ricci, a handyman who worked for them a year ago, played a role.

**Identity? like what was stated on AMW, He has a beard was the beard real? Was it obvious that it was a man?(most likely but, anyone can put a beard on wear clothes like he did). I find it interesting that Ricci if he did do it would wear tan color clothes and a white shirt, something that can be seen at night. He does this for aliving, he would be wearing dark clothes possibly jeans. --Now if someone comes back and says that this is what the Adams women states that he was wearing last year. I think I will shoot myself, only proving again that the Smarts are on this thread!**

"Lois feels that there is no doubt in her mind it was Richard," Smart said, adding that he believes Ricci was likely involved, but did not act alone.

**I would also think Ed and Lois would think Ricci did it because if he didn’t then there is an unknown out there.**

Police still say he tops the list of "potential" suspects in the abduction.

**depends, who you talk to, in the police or fbi departments.**

A month before his death, he was charged with a June 6, 2001 theft at the Smart home and a nighttime burglary at a nearby home two months earlier. Investigators believe Ricci's history makes it likely he broke into the Smart home to steal valuables and accidentally awakened Elizabeth.

**Ricci volinteered this information, why oh why again would he do that if he was part of this abduction/kidnapping?**

Smart now questions why police didn't tell him then that Ricci was a parolee with a long criminal history.

**Have you ever heard of the privacy act? You have to ask, it’s not a given. Ed you should be smarter than you are but I really think you knew about these cons working for you, always trying to save a buck.**

But Ricci failed to show up to work afterward, and Smart became concerned he was being taken for a ride.

**Why would you want him back in your house cut your losses.**

After two days, he went to the Capitol Hill apartment complex where Ricci lived at the time, and discovered the Jeep sitting in the parking lot with the engine idling.

**Where? Jeep sitting in parking lot running. Sorry Can’t buy that story nomatter how innocent Ed is on this. Ed has his own set of keys on this Jeep. I can see however, Ed not giving him all the sets of keys to Ricci until the job is done.**

Smart got inside the Jeep, and Ricci appeared, asking him what he was doing. An angry Smart told him he was taking the Jeep back, that he believed he had been taken advantage of after going "the extra mile" for him.

**This sentence is too damaging. I can’t express my horror with Ed stating these facts. It sounds like he is leading up to something that will come out at a later date.**

The family continues to exist in a kind of limbo. They have seen several child abduction cases across the country solved this summer -- some happily, some tragically -- without a resolution of their own. "I don't feel like I've had a scrap" of luck, Smart said. "I just want this to be over."

** This statement is said by him continually. It kindof bothers me. I think he should be saying I just want Elizabeth back no matter what.**

**As I read this, in my OPINION all I could see was, someone answering some of the questions that were being asked on this thread.

[freedox]

Welcome back, scaredkat. You make some excellent points in your post.

[varina davis]

Hi Scaredkat, good post.

[varina davis]

**Why would you want him back in your house cut your losses.**

Why would he want him back in his house if he thought he was of such bad character, considering there were YOUNG CHILDREN IN THE HOME?

[Palladin]

"I just want this to be over." scaredkat, you're right. Ed does say this a lot. Never "I want my little girl back", or "I'll tear apart the guy who took her if she's not returned safely", or "I'll never rest until Elizabeth is home again". What does he want to be over? Does he want to be arrested? Is his hypersensitive Mormon conscience bothering him?

He is such a creep. I get such a bad feeling whenever I hear him interviewed on TV. To me, he is the male version of Susan Smith....whiny, needy, ME-ME-ME....the Mo version of a drama queen.

[Neenah]

Very refreshing post. Alot of thought and care went into it. I think alot of people around the nation have come to all our points. In fact, I know many have.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, scaredkat.

[Jolly Green]

I think the words "responding officers" speak for themselves. If Chief Dinse were talking about detectives who arrived on the scene much later, I think he would have made that clear.

In the zeal of you and others to parse every word out of a Smart mouth, you have missed what I consider to be the glaring problem with the Adams woman's story - at least as reported by the Trib. As I have stated previously, a reliable source has told me that a single officer responded to the residence, followed shortly thereafter by a second officer. This was also confirmed by a second source. This is typical in that most "patrols" are manned by a single officer. The Adams woman claims there was a second officer sitting in the "lone" patrol car. Why would a second officer just sit in the car? That is the real question that emerges from the article - not the drivel that you, Neenah, Bella and varina propagate. There are three possible scenarios:

1) the second "officer" was a ride-along i.e. a student officer or citizen such as a member of a "Citizen's Police Academy" riding with the officer. This is fairly common, but usually only happens on day or swing shift - not mid-shift. Such ride-alongs sign waivers, etc. and are instructed to remain in the car or otherwise do exactly as instructed by the officer.

2) The second "officer" was off duty. That doesn't fly. In a middle of the night situation like this, it is unlikely that an off duty officer wouldn't have taken part.

3) The second "officer" was actually a canine. This is the more likely scenario. At least some SLCPD dogs ride in the back seat and could easily wander to the front in the absence of their trainer.

[Jolly Green]

This particular quote doesn't seem to fit with the "armed gunman" scenario. Why would an armed gunman take his victim to an all-night convenience store or a restaurant?

Did you forget a minor detail i.e. the perp's "hostage" comment to Liz. He is said to have indicated that he might take her hostage. That would lead a reasonable person to conclude that he might have dropped her off somewhere after he got out of the neighborhood.

[Jolly Green]

As I read this, in my OPINION all I could see was, someone answering some of the questions that were being asked on this thread.

Or gee, answering the questions that the Trib asked him?

[varina davis]

Never "I want my little girl back", or "I'll tear apart the guy who took her if she's not returned safely", or "I'll never rest until Elizabeth is home again".

Good points. Most fathers -- and mothers, for that matter -- would have been furious at the get-go. Never saw that with this couple.

[jo6pac]

Please show the proof that he paid his employees in cash and that he kept no books? The only place I've ever heard that is from the Smart haters. The fact that he knew Richards address shows that he was keeping books.

Partial transcript of Ed Smart's 7/10 press conference:

I...I paid him...uh, you know...with the car...we had a contract on the car...and he was supposed to work...you know to help pay that off...which he did...and I did pay him...you know...some cash...I can't remember if I paid him check or not...I've had no(?) over the course of building my home I've had...you know...temporary work that I've picked up for the day and...you know...I've paid them cash. Sometimes...sometimes there's a problem where they don't have IDs...they can't cash checks so...you know...that's basically... .

[Jolly Green]

Please show the proof that he paid his employees in cash and that he kept no books?

Nice try, but that doesn't prove he kept no books.

[jo6pac]

Of course he kept books...so did the Enron management team.

[varina davis]

Of course he kept books...so did the Enron management team.

2 points, jo6pac!

[freedox]

"The Adams woman claims there was a second officer sitting in the "lone" patrol car. Why would a second officer just sit in the car? That is the real question that emerges from the article...."

ROFL!!! In that entire article, the real question that jumps out at you is Suann Adams' claim that there was a police officer sitting in a car that night??? And now we are being lead to speculate on whether this alleged "officer" was of the two legged or four legged variety??? Ms. Adams stated that this officer gave her and her husband permission to enter the house......do you think they used the "one bark for yes/two barks for no" method of communication? I appreciate your efforts at deflection, Jolly, but this one is beyond the pale. I'm almost afraid to ask this, but......just what enormous impact does this have on the case?

[Neenah]

The Second Police Officer regales his buddies with stories of what happened at the Smart house that night.

[varina davis]

Smart said he had gone "the extra mile" when he sold Ricci the vehicle, allowing him to pay it off while Ricci worked for Smart at $8 per hour over seven or eight weeks. But Smart ended the relationship a year ago when he discovered that money, jewelry and other items had been taken from the family's home.

After the theft, "Richard came to me, face to face. He said, 'Ed, I want you to know that I did not take it,' " Smart said.

"I said, 'Richard, I appreciate that, but I want you to know that I can't have anyone in my home right now, that with this violation and not knowing who took the items, I just can't have you back in my home."

The two men parted "on very good terms, so to speak, relative to the situation," Smart said.

That's from a July 12 CNN article and press conference in SLC. Sure sounds different that today's story..

[lakey]

In a couple of lengthy t.v. interviews, Patsy Ramsey, in denying her guilt, referred to JonBenet as "that child"..." "I would not hurt that child," or something to that effect.

I was relieved when she finally said, "my daughter" in a later interview.