Elizabeth Smart Thread, 9/26/02 to ???

[stlnative]

NEW THREAD - PING WHOM EVER YOU LIKE - I DON'T PING ANYMORE - SORRY

[Sherlock]

Great post, UG. Unfortunately I don't think varina is truly interested in hearing this kind of logic, it interferes with her theory that the parents are lying about this.

[Devil_Anse]

About the Smarts questioning Mary K.:

I think they surely did question her the night of the abduction. But it appears that even after doing that, they missed the important point that the gunman didn't threaten Mary K. directly, that he actually only spoke to Elizabeth.

Remember, with Lois sitting in on the police interviews, she got a chance to hear all that Mary K. knew.

As for their having a choice about giving police access to Mary K., and looking like real losers if they didn't let the police question her...true. Look at the Ramseys. They knew they could keep Burke from the police, and for a long time I think they did. In fact, I don't think anyone except John and Patsy got to question Burke at all until someone subpoenaed him, and they had to produce him. In my opinion, their having kept Burke away from being questioned for so long is one big reason one or both of the Ramseys hasn't been indicted.

[stlnative]

Sorry Utah Girl I did not know you started a thread last night. I am not pinging people anymore but will included a link in the previous thread always to the new thread if I start a new thread like I did last night. I did it in huge fonts so it would not be missed. If I catch an ES thread going over 1000 posts I will start a new thread, if it gets to 1100 then I am probably not online and someone else should start a new thread for everyone. It would be nice if if anyone starts a new thread that they add the new thread "link" (in large fonts) to the previous thread for those who are not being pinged to the thread. I personally do not need to be pinged as long as someone adds the link to the new thread in the old thread.

[Utah Girl]

No worries. I just asked the admin moderator to close mine. I thought I had linked the new thread to the old one (or vice versa?) Anyway, if I happen to start it next time, I'll remember about the big font. Good idea. :)

[Devil_Anse]

As you said, MO is one thing that argues against it having been ex-bishop Dixon who took Elizabeth. There he was, with a "stable" of young potential victims right there where he could get at them. Doesn't seem to me that he'd need to be breaking into a house to get a victim.

Plus, since he was a bishop at the time, seems he could have found some less risky way to get at Elizabeth--if he even knew of her existence (which we don't even know) and if for some reason he wanted her above other more available victims (which we also don't know.)

[stlnative]

Sorry I not pinging people anymore...

[Devil_Anse]

she could have previously stashed other clothes, etc. somewhere else prior to leaving June 5.

I guess that's possible. I wonder if Lois, the attentive mother, would have known most of Elizabeth's favorite clothes, and have been able to tell if any such things were missing. I'd imagine Lois was probably with Elizabeth when she bought most or all of her clothes.

[varina davis]

What do you think, logically, varina?

I don't think it was anyone with a past criminal record.

[Devil_Anse]

I was not specifically agreeing with varina's motorcycle scenario.

Let's just tell Varina that just b/c she zips around on a Harley, doesn't mean everyone else does!

I'm developing this mental picture...it will keep developing, I suppose, till some hard object hits me in the head....!

I was going to address this to Varina, too, but I don't dare.

[ChocChipCookie]

Thanks for starting another thread. I think the last 200 or so posts on the last one were some of the best discussion we've had in quite a while with very little bickering or childish put-downs. Maybe we should have a tally posted at the top: "(x-number) bicker-free posts" -- you know, like they have at factories, "(14) No-Injury Days".

[varina davis]

That's basically what I said in Post 90.

[stlnative]

I sure missed the link in the old thread, I must have not seen it... Oh well I am sorry. I not in here much anymore but when I do get chance and need a break from building websites I drop in. Also don't worry about linking your news reports SOME people on here should know where the articles are coming from since it names the source in the reports. It amazes me that some people who have been following this case and posting on this thread almost since the beginning still do not recognize the Deseret News fonts...

To the folks who must have the sources for the reports... Here are some of the SLC News Sources (bookmark them)

http://deseretnews.com/
http://www.sltrib.com/

Want more ???? Then look them up on www.google.com

Sorry to go off, but if others can freely do it... I guess I can also! ;-) - Thank you KINDLY Utah Girl for even posting the news reports, you seem to be the only one doing it. I quit posting them as it seems no one was interested in any of the Utah news reports, but I do read the Utah News Daily and pick up the stories on my own.

[stlnative]

Ok I am off my SOAPBOX NOW, for the life of this new thread. I'll just sit back read and keep my lips sealed like I have been doing. ;-)

[varina davis]

Doesn't seem to me that he'd need to be breaking into a house to get a victim.

Maybe he didn't "break in." Maybe they had things in common, running, jogging, religion, etc.

[varina davis]

I wonder if Lois, the attentive mother, would have known most of Elizabeth's favorite clothes, and have been able to tell if any such things were missing.

Oh, come on!! At 14? I don't care how sheltered adolescents may be, they don't want parents snooping around their clothes and other things.

[Devil_Anse]

Police investigating Elizabeth Smart's disappearance arrested Ricci on June 14 for allegedly violating that parole by committing an April 4, 2001, burglary, possessing alcohol and failing to complete a treatment program.

Thanks so much for that quote!

Parole/probation officers, when they want to get someone's parole/probation revoked, will put in a written request to the judge who sentenced the guy on whatever offense it was he was on parole/probation for. The judge, on getting the request, will issue a warrant for the guy's arrest. When police arrest him, he will almost always be held w/o bond. Then the judge will hold a hearing to give the guy a chance to explain. There is no right to counsel at this type of hearing. After hearing what the guy has to say, the judge will either revoke probation/parole, making the guy have to go back and finish out the prison time he was originally given on the underlying offense, or will forgive the guy and reinstate him on probation/parole.

Often a parole/probation officer will see one of his people screwing up, but will at first call him in and warn him. I think that's what happened when Ricci first fell off the wagon. He was given a chance or two, and his sentencing judge was told nothing at that point.

But then when police heard Ricci confess to at least one felony committed while he was out on parole (burglary), the parole officer would have been told of that. At that point, he'd have given up on giving Ricci any more chances, and have issued the request to the judge to revoke parole.

[varina davis]

Also, Elizabeth was not a brand new 14-year-old. She was just about 5 months shy of 15.

[Utah Girl]

Sorry, I was answering the posts sequentially, and didn't see your response until after I had posted my response.

[Devil_Anse]

Maybe [Dixon] didn't "break in." Maybe they had things in common, running, jogging, religion, etc.

But then, if they knew each other somewhat, why would he need to go near the house, putting himself at risk? Most people who take advantage of kids or young teens are big cowards. They often pick victims who are in single-parent (yes, I mean single female parent) families, victims in whose life there is no ever-present male authority figure. These sleazeballs shake in their boots at the thought of getting caught and beaten to a pulp by the kid's dad. Not that Ed is exactly some big ex-Marine or something, but...she had a brother, too. And he'd have known that those males were in the house.

He wouldn't have cared if she left with nothing to explain it to her sister. Some molester guy wouldn't give a damn if the girl later got caught and got in trouble, he'd have just tried to disappear into the woodwork.

Why wouldn't he have arranged to have her meet him at some place her family would never guess?

[Devil_Anse]

[Adolescents...don't want parents snooping around their clothes and other things.

I even have such an adolescent. But I still know every piece of clothing he owns, from wash day and from having PAID for every one of them!

Sometimes I just buy the stuff and bring it home for him to try on, it usually is acceptable, no big deal. With a girl, however, there would probably be someone with her at the store whom she would ask, "do I look fat in this," etc.

I will concede that it would depend on whether Lois had a good enough memory to tell if something was missing. It might take a while to come to her that something was gone. And it is true that some kids have incredible amounts of clothes.