Elizabeth Smart Thread, 9/17/02 to ???

[Utah Girl]

Just thought I would start a new thread.

[freedox]

"From my amateur anthropological studies of contemporary Mormons, I gather that a huge proportion of Mormon wives/mothers (at least in Utah) are, or have at one time been "music teachers"......"

LOL!! That conjures up visions of Professor Harold Hill (The Music Man) working his way through Utah.....

[Neenah]

something in the context of what the person said--that tended to reveal his identity.

When was this crime committed? June 5?...and MK told the police she recognised the voice...whan was that? It was before Ricci died tho.

And they did not arrest him !Or name him as the alleged kidnapper , and prepare for trial. (I know he was in prison at the time of the voice identification)

The eye witness would be questioned in court to name him. (even if it was in black face)..but if they have the identity..where is the arrest?

[varina davis]

I believe that Elizaabeth, with her upbringing both in LDS and in the family was not one who would believe a worker in the middle of the night for crying out loud..and go quietly with him!

Right, not likely to run off with a handyman in the middle of the night -- more likely with someone she knew and "trusted."

[Devil_Anse]

Hey, varina, have you ever heard of those occasional cases in which the police or news report goes like this:

A man came upon another man raping a woman. He assisted the woman, chasing off the rapist. Unfortunately, he then raped her himself.

Every now and then, I've heard such a thing. Suppose this person who "wanted to help Elizabeth out of a bad situation" was actually someone who wanted to take advantage of her himself? Or suppose someone convinced Elizabeth she was in a bad situation, when in fact it wasn't that bad--or there was some more legitimate way out? Even if this person is some sort of good Samaritan, the way they chose to "help" this girl is highly questionable, and doesn't speak well for THEIR intentions.

[sandude]

Smart scene unsealed for hours

You are the best UG. Thank you so much for posting this article. I've got a really brutal schedule tonight and I've got to be to work at 4:00 AM tomorrow so I wouldn't have been able to do this research. Your efforts are appreciated.

[Devil_Anse]

A bluff to make the person think Mary K. knew more than she actually knew. Hoping to make him nervous, and make him blow his cool or slip up. This idea has often been proposed by people here.

[varina davis]

Even if this person is some sort of good Samaritan, the way they chose to "help" this girl is highly questionable, and doesn't speak well for THEIR intentions.

Well, of course!

[freedox]

"Suppose this person who "wanted to help Elizabeth out of a bad situation" was actually someone who wanted to take advantage of her himself? Or suppose someone convinced Elizabeth she was in a bad situation, when in fact it wasn't that bad--or there was some more legitimate way out?"

Excellent point......adolecent girls can be very gullible and vulnerable to this type of thing.

[Neenah]

Not following you here.

[GovernmentShrinker]

I suspect that trying to stop people from searching for their neighbor's missing child may be a lot more difficult in Utah than in a lot of other places. And how much danger was there, really, with 40-50 people searching in the immediate area? A single armed gunman would be pretty unlikely to try to take someone on in that situation, and if he did actually fire and hit someone, the victim would get immediate help AND the gunman would almost certainly be caught, leading to finding Elizabeth. The alternative is to seriously delay a thorough search of the area. Not such a tough call in my book. Remember what happened to little Charlotte Hansen in the course of just a few minutes -- and doctors said that just a few more minutes delay in getting her to the hospital, and they probably wouldn't have been able to save her.

Has anyone heard any updates on Charlotte?

[Devil_Anse]

You counted Ricci out b/c of the time line? What time line? There are supposedly two missionaries for whom Ricci cooked dinner at home, but that ended at 8 p.m. at the latest. The next non-family member who can place him anywhere is Thurber, at 8 a.m. the next day.

Obviously you and I differ in that you believe Angela Ricci, whereas I don't believe her at all. I think she would lie about the endearing portrait of their quiet evening at home, in a heartbeat.

Also, early news reports said Ricci at first told police he'd been out with friends the night of June 4. Whatever happened to that? The reports also said that Ricci at first told police (when they questioned him the evening of June 5) that he'd gone to a drug clinic that morning. They checked, and in fact he hadn't been there at all.

When I saw Angela and Mr. Smith on LKL, you could almost feel it, like you were in the middle of a lump of clay, Mr. Smith was slowly sculpting this story, this story that there "was only the time period from 1 a.m. when Angela went to sleep, until 6 a.m. when the Riccis had their coffee like Ozzie and Harriet." (No, that's not a direct quote.)

And Ricci had June 5 scheduled off. How conveeeeeeenient!

[Jolly Green]

I get the feeling that Morgan isn't too crazy about the LDS church.

I'm shocked! The entire SLCPD, the FBI and the Church (not to mention the media) were all supposed to be behind a major conspiracy to cover-up this case for the Smarts - at least according to some of the more dull witted posters on these threads. Are you saying that there is some renegade police officer who didn't get the word?

[Neenah]

Post 992 , addressed to Devil should not have had that quote. The question was if I saw Sue Ann on t.v and what she looked like. sorry.

[GovernmentShrinker]

Another question is what did the Smart parents KNOW when they made the first call? Getting all the facts out of a traumatized 9-year-old wouldn't have been an instantaneous process, and once they realized Elizabeth really was missing, they wouldn't have waited to have a careful talk with MK before calling police. Perfectly normal to call police in a panic, yell "my daughter's missing, and I think she may have been kidnapped!", and then go try to get more out of little MK, who was probably sobbing uncontrollably at the sight of her panicked parents. Who knows when the parents heard about the gun or the threat or the stopover in the bathroom or the fact that the voice sounded familiar?

[freedox]

"And how much danger was there, really, with 40-50 people searching in the immediate area?"

If a desperate armed gunman was involved, there would have been life-or-death danger to any one of those 40-50 people who happened to stumble across him. (Remember Ricci and the police officer?)

"A single armed gunman would be pretty unlikely to try to take someone on in that situation...."

A single armed gunman would also be pretty unlikely to abduct a teenager from an upstairs bedroom that she shared with her sister......but that's what we're told happened.

[Devil_Anse]

MK told the police she recognized the voice...before Ricci died...

And they had not charged him as of the time he died. But don't forget--at the time he died, they didn't know if Elizabeth was alive or dead. So what, exactly, would they have charged him with? Kidnapping? Suppose they'd done that. Suppose he'd lived, and gone to trial. THEN suppose her obviously-murdered body were found. No matter how the kdinapping trial had come out, Ricci would have been protected by double jeopardy. How the public would have howled! "You idiots, you let a murderer get off with just a kidnapping trial!"

[Devil_Anse]

About the people all coming out to help--

THANK YOU, Government Shrinker, for making the point some of us have been trying so hard to make!!

[freedox]

What's the penalty for kidnapping, as opposed to murder?

[Devil_Anse]

Are you saying that there is some renegade police officer who didn't get the word?

Even worse, JG!! It's a renegade Deputy District Attorney!!

[Jolly Green]

Is this the article you are looking for?

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,405029111,00.html?