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Elizabeth Smart Thread, 9/9/02 to ???
Posted on 09/09/2002 8:52:09 PM PDT by stlnative
New thread...
TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: elizabethsmart; richardricci
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To: lakey
"There was a bank robbery back in November, 2001, and they don't get around to charging these three men until 8 months later!"
Are they inept, or are they on a witchhunt, a "rush to judgment?"
The inept law enforcement agency in the bank robbery would be federal law enforcement. The inept law enforcement agency in the theft and burglary cases would be SLC local. Two inept law enforcement agencies. Yup, it's a wonder full-blown anarchy hasn't broken out by now.
To: home educate
But there a possibility that he was involved in the kidnapping, perhaps as a lookout.At the most, I think it's possible he may have suspected the identity of the perpetrator.
To: sandude
What about my post 216?What about it? It answered nothing.
To: lakey
"That's better...'an LE agency trying to hide something.'"
Yes. Got to fit it into the template, don't we? Having the police be good guys, and having the repeat-felon be the bad guy is just so...so...predictable! You'd never sell a script like that!
To: lakey
"I'm not going to hunt down the original poster."
Thank you. I have seen no sign whatsoever that anyone here wants you to.
To: varina davis
A couple of questions.
1. Regarding the theft of jewelry and other items from the Smart's home -- I was under the impression that LE found those stolen items in Ricci's trailer. If that's the case, then he didn't steal them to sell for drug money.
2. Angela's "addiction" to Soma -- Where has it been stated that she is/was addicted? If she has serious back pain, taking Soma when she needs it certainly doesn't equal an addiction. A dear friend of mine mentioned to me a couple of days ago that she takes Soma when her back pain gets too bad. I have no reason to suspect that she's addicted. Not championing Angela, just wondering if a reliable source confirmed her as an addict.
That's all. I'm glad that Devil Anse and others are looking waay outside the box for possible explanations and answers. It makes the forum more interesting than the usual "Ricci did it"/"No he didn't" conversation.
To: varina davis
Varina, is your bedroom over the garage?
That theory of mine, about a possible NON-ELIZABETH-RELATED reason why Ricci might have firmly refused to explain the jeep's whereabouts after May 30, does not include the supposition that Ricci kidnapped Elizabeth. In fact, it at least suggests that he did NOT kidnap Elizabeth.
I'm just trying to get at the truth for each of the puzzling mysteries in this case. I was assuming the same of you, until I read that you actually assumed someone, anyone, could be "jealous" of this poor, misguided, self-destructive couple.
To: varina davis
apparently LE has no evidence to link him to either case
We're not privy to what evidence LE has in either case. But they have made public Ricci denies he ever took the Jeep from Mouls and thus will not discuss where he drove in the 1000 miles, what he did with the items he removed from the Jeep, and who he left the repair shop with, a person matching the description of the kidnapper. The Jeep was never parked at the trailer park during the time it was in Ricci's possession from May 30 - Jun 8. His wife lied about not calling Moul on May 30. She never made another call to Moul to check on the Jeep after the call where she inquired on the status of the electronic fuel pump repair which made the Jeep drivable which she later admitted making on May 30.
taking some items of minimal value over a year ago when he worked at the smarts.
Also included jewelry, total value $3500.
He fully cooperated with LE from day one
To the contrary police said he had not cooperated, he would not answer their questions.
including polygraph
He failed the polygraph.
still no forensic or other evidence
We do not know what evidence LE has.
Yet, almost the entire LE case was focused on this one man -- as far as the public knows -- while other potentially viable suspects walked.
Police have repeatedly said they have other suspects they are investigating and most, if not all of them, link to Richard Ricci. You're wrong on all counts, as usual varina. You need to find another hobby.
To: varina davis
At the most, I think it's possible he may have suspected the identity of the perpetrator.
Is Ricci clean or not? Or does he just have the 'gift of suspicion' like you accusing that Mormon bishop?
To: varina davis
"no one a lot of posters have implicated as perpetrators or accomplices, ran anywhere, except Edmunds"
Dixon hasn't run either.
No polygamists appear to be missing.
Tom's still shooting photos, Cynthia's still treating children, Lois is still crying, and Ed's still doing...whatever it is that Ed does.
In many jurisdictions, evidence of flight is not allowed to be presented as evidence tending to show guilt. Conversely, evidence that someone did not flee is virtually useless as evidence tending to show innocence of crime.
To: Utah Girl
"Sadly, most junkies end up taking whatever will give them a high, anything at all."
Yes. And even sadder, many addicts are legal addicts, people who are legally prescribed narcotic pain medicines over and over. Such a thing can make a contributing member of society into a fodder for criminal courts.
To: Devil_Anse
...many addicts are legal addicts, people who are legally prescribed narcotic pain medicines over and over..
I'm sure Angela's doctor has been paranoid and is trying to get her off the Soma's he had been prescribing for her for the last year and a half.
I think Angela knows enough on what Richard was up to and what happened to ES that she won't be stupid enough to try to bring any lawsuit or write any book. She wanted to clear his name in the eyes of the gullible public, like varina, and she will now disappear for good unless there's eventually a trial she's called to.
To: home educate
Angela: "He's not someone that acts so impulsively that he'd grab a child and run...He would say to himself, 'Well, OK. On this hand I have breaking and entering, on this hand I take the kid. Let's see, which is more prison time? The kid. I think I'll take the breaking and entering.'"
Cool Hand Luke (prison inmate): "I never planned anything in my life."
Angela is assuming that if Ricci was in the Smart home that night, he just went in to take a few things. Taking the kid would be an impulse. But what if taking the kid was the whole reason for being there? It's not an impulse then.
I think Ricci did plan most of his crimes for which he'd been convicted. No reason to think that he'd change to a non-planner.
Ricci planned, Cool Hand Luke didn't. Ricci spent more time in prison than Cool Hand Luke did. Maybe the planner types are more dangerous than the impulsive types! Go figure!
To: varina davis
As you expressed your disbelief that Remington was "disgusted" that Richard would abduct a teenage girl...
At last, agreement!
IMO, Remington gave Rick up b/c Rick had given Remington's name to the police. Tit for tat.
To: varina davis
"Ricci not confessing to alleged kidnapping" True.
"not confessing to bank robbery" Perhaps, but guaranteed, every witness was interviewed and probably shown photo line-up and/or given voice line-up. Gun? Possibly identifiable and maybe traceable to Ricci. Alibi? Did he have one for Nov. 1, 2001? Was he seen in Sandy anywhere nearby on that day? Fingerprints? Marked money with exploding dye pack? Traceable serial numbers on money, showing some of it used by him? Tapes, showing at least the build and demeanor of Ricci as he vaulted counter, etc.?
"He did apparently admit taking some items of minimal value over a year ago when he worked at the Smarts." Kind of futile not to admit it, when if he didn't, they'd think he took them the early morning of June 5, 2002. Among "minimal value" items: jewelry, cash. Aggregate value: $3500. Also, some of the items were found in his home, so they'd have gotten him for receiving stolen property even if he hadn't admitted to the theft.
"fully cooperated with LE from day one" Parolees have a lesser expectation of privacy than does the law-abiding citizen, when it comes to search/seizure. Polygraph? What's to lose, it's not admissible against him anyway. Did not fully cooperate,admitted limited things, gave exculpatory statement on some things, clammed up on others, which was certainly within his rights.
Other potentially viable suspects walked? You'd have defended them just as you are defending Ricci. He seems to gain sainthood by virtue of being accused.
To: Devil_Anse
Meantime, a man has been identified who helped tow Richard Ricci's white jeep to a West Valley auto repair shop. 2-news has been told the man hired Ricci for building or renovating homes. (Wonder who this is?)
Detectives may be looking for him now. Police are very interested in tracking the whereabouts of Ricci’s Cherokee which was given to him by Elizabeth’s father, Ed Smart, for work at his home.
Police said the Cherokee was put in the shop at the end of May. A man reportedly help tow the Jeep to the shop at that time. The Cherokee reportedly was later removed and then returned three days after the Smart abduction. A mechanic said the jeep was brought back caked with mud and with about a thousand additional miles on the odometer.
The mechanic said he saw Ricci walk across the street and meet another man. The mechanic did not get a good look at the second man. Police want to know if it is the same man who helped Ricci tow the truck to the shop the first time in late May.
To: sandude
"Have you decided Richard has to be innocent?"
No, maybe he was along for the abduction. But not in the white jeep. Maybe....in a blue SUV?
Tell me what's illogical!
I'll tell you right now, ONE thing that's illogical: that people would leave a jeep that is capable of doing 500-1000 miles, in the shop, for extended periods, when the stated repairs could be done in a day or two! There's something fishy about Ricci's leaving that jeep there so much.
Also, even Moul has said, at least one time, that the jeep was taken surreptitiously on May 30. (Ask Brigette, she'll tell you.) What sort of person can take someone else's jeep surreptitiously, and have neither the auto shop nor the jeep's owner call the police or even complain?
To: Sherlock
Ricci did not originally tow that jeep in on May 30, he towed it in or had it towed in before May 30.
As for Moul being told not to discuss certain details, then why would Moul be spilling his guts to a national audience on 2 different shows?
"middle of a repair cycle"
Repair cycle?? See, you also at least seem to see that that jeep was in that shop for too-long periods of time, for it to have just been repairs!
If the lost keys thing was part of a plan, it was a very poorly-conceived plan, and not worthy of our charming con artist Ricci. How could anyone (varina, please ignore this) believe that ridiculous key story? Talk about a tortured scenario! And if the story is utterly unbelievable, what good is it to its creator?
So if this missing jeep thing was reminiscent of the caper where Ricci loaned his truck to a group of scumbags that ripped off a food bank with it...does that mean he loaned his jeep to someone else? Then if the jeep was used for the abduction, wouldn't that mean Ricci wasn't the one who did it? I can buy this, except I just think he didn't VOLUNTARILY give up his jeep to be used by the said scumbags. I think they TOOK it from him b/c he hadn't paid his drug tab.
Angela, have something to hide? Will wonders never cease! I think Angela goes through every moment of her life hiding something, simply from force of habit!
To: home educate
"Edmunds...attempt on taking his own life"
Or Edmunds was suddenly and unknowingly given/sold a much more pure form of heroin than his system was accustomed to. That happens sometimes, and the junkie dies from it.
To: varina davis
"Who was proven to be a child molester?"
Do you think prison inmates give each other the same presumption of innocence they expect from law-abiding citizens?
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