Elizabeth Smart thread, September 5, 2002-?

[IamHD]

ES missing since 6-5-2002 and will have been missing for 3 months in a few hours, so I thought that this would be an approriate time to start a new thread.

[scaredkat]

http://www.psitech.net/news/tsl_083002.htm

did some research and this is what I found--
Evans Mound
(42IN40) ** (added 1985 - Site - #85003387)
Also known as 42IN 40
Address Restricted, Summit
Historic Significance: Information Potential
Area of Significance: Prehistoric
Cultural Affiliation: Freemont Culture
Period of Significance: 1499-1000 AD
Owner: Private
Historic Function: Domestic
Historic Sub-function: Village Site
Current Function: Landscape
Current Sub-function: Underwater

[scaredkat]

Check out this map--
http://www.mapofutah.net/utah-map-html/12.html

You will see Brighton and next to it is Park city, If you go up to Brighton via 7200 south when you get there you can drive up over the mountain to Park City. Now look further down the map, do you see charleston. Charleston is a building project going on by zeke dumke and the Tom Smart (and possibly Ed.)

Now Im going to refer to
http://www.psitech.net/news/tsl_083002.htm
I am really wondering if its around charleston maybe maybenot but there was some hoopla about smarts building there some time ago because of indian burials. If you read more about this you will find that dumke donated large amounts of money to utah and then all of the sudden they could start building. The place is in charleston, its called winterton which was a farm but when they started diging they found indian ruins this as been going on for some years, but I really found it interesting! I think my husband and I will go for a little ride and check charleston and around there for ourselves. Ill let you know my findings or not findings when we get back. This really could be something because the winter olympics ("winter games") were in parkcity and hebercity. (the map show these places as being very spread apart but in reality they really are not and in one hours time we could be there and for the milage the stated something like a 100 miles. This would be true depending which way you went.) Wish me luck. Im also looking at Willard Bay by the great salt lake if someone wants to look that up on a map. It know for indian ruins that date back to Christ time (nails in hand, clue). If I dont find anything in charleston, sunday will drive up to willard bay. Let me know if those guys from the psitech tell us were they are looking. By the way my husband heard of these people before they are somehow connected with the goverment(I dont know if they state this). If they know what they are doing it would be cool and if they dont, its intriging anyway. The smarts seem interested or at least Dave Smart.

[scaredkat]

Well you guys will soon be getting up and starting your saturday. Im just going to bed so goodnight and goodmorning. I probably wont sleep cant wait for daylight to for that ride!

[Neenah]

Listen, DEVIL....

I don't care if you have LURKED on this thread for 2-3 years, you sure got your voice right out of the shoot!!

You came on here, and in your first post, you slammed every person who has contributed to this thread who does not agree with your thoughts. I don't care if you disagree with them, none of them has started a slam on anyone, but have ANSWERED the slams when put to them.

You, on the other hand gave an analysis of each poster like a shrink on a couch. HOW TO WIN FRIENDS AND INFLUENCE PEOPLE apparently is not on your Library shelf!!

Let's take a look and review your handiwork, shall we?

In my world, one does not come on any message board with this type of slamming arrogence and evaluate the poster's, poster's that are sharing information in print, and reviewing it.

In a court trial, evidence, and timelines are reviewed whether you agree with it or not. You lost credibility on your first day in my book, and to take Iwo Jima's comments some weeks back to another thorn...You don't deserve a reply from ANYONE.

I am sick of the tenor of this entire thread. Let me ask you this.....

Picture yourself in your home, WE ARE COMING OVER FOR A GATHERING WITH YOU...and walk into your home....Is this the way we are treated as soon as we walk in? You analize every guest? How long do you think they would stay before walking back out the door? You, sir devil, are just that which your name depicts. If you think you are a voice to be heard, you lost it with me for.....

YOU ARE A LITTLE, LITTLE MAN.

And I for one will read you as .....INVISIBLE.

[Eagle9]

This link will take you to a map of Salt Lake City, UT. Click East once (on the right side of the map).
The red stick pin is 12643 E St , Salt Lake City. Federal Heights is just above the University of Utah.
The + and - , just to the left of the map, can be used to zoom in or out.
Click the East arrow to move in that direction, same for any of the other three directions.
The corners of the map can be used to move diagonally.
This zip code is 84103. Just under the map, any address can be entered.

12643 E St, Salt Lake City, UT 84103

[varina davis]

This is the church. Could this be the Smart's church,

Thanks for the link.

[varina davis]

"The people who were responsible for controlling that have been talked to," Dinse said. "In this case, the crime scene was not well-controlled, and that's something we have to live with in the investigation. It's a matter of training and educating our officers who slipped."

I thought that was numero uno in cop training.

[varina davis]

Varina--Check this out, I can't get the picture of this guy to this board</>

Bella, go back and read the past few pages. There are a couple of photos of dixon, plus a lot more info.

[Devil_Anse]

Why? B/C I attempt (however feebly) to not shame the teachers who spent their hours teaching me? Because, unlike you, I tend to write more than one sentence at a time?

I've never heard of that author she referred to--the one whose name she said she combined with "Jen" in developing her posting name.

[varina davis]

YOU ARE A LITTLE, LITTLE MAN.

Or a sly, petty, little woman.

[varina davis]

Why?

The ruse is over, Devil. You blew your cover.

[varina davis]

Here's the psychic's story--so much for that theory.

Police, Archaeologists Wary of Psychics' Theory of Smart Mystery Saturday, September 7, 2002 (c) 2001, THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE The months-old search for Elizabeth Smart took a strange twist last week when two Salt Lake City detectives -- at the behest of a group of psychics -- ventured into a crypt that holds the skeletal remains of ancient American Indians. Officials from PSI Tech, a Seattle-based company, claimed that more than a dozen of its members had determined the location of Elizabeth's body by using a special psychic process they call "Technical Remote Viewing." Independently, the company claims, 14 visionaries all pointed to a concrete burial vault built by the state of Utah about 10 years ago. The vault, located in Salt Lake City's This Is the Place State Heritage Park in the mouth of Emigration Canyon, contains the remains of 75 American Indians, many unearthed by construction projects around Utah. But the crypt was searched and no trace of the 14-year-old girl, snatched June 5 from her bedroom, could be found, said state archaeologist Kevin Jones. "We searched it very thoroughly. The whole thing was very secure," Jones said. "I certainly didn't want to start opening coffins." The investigators' fruitless Aug. 28 search through cobwebs and stale air was one example of how thousands of tips from self-proclaimed psychics have occupied overworked detectives desperately trying to crack the baffling case. "Many of these [psychic tipsters] are well-meaning, but these tips certainly take manpower away from the investigation," said Salt Lake City Police Chief Rick Dinse. Still, he said that investigators will check out every "psychic vision" if the tip is specific. "I don't encourage it or discourage it," Dinse said, speaking of psychics sharing their beliefs. In fact, Dinse said officers still may recruit a psychic to assist with the case. "To this point, we haven't brought in any psychics -- but I don't rule anything out," Dinse said. While recently staffing the police department's Elizabeth Smart tip line personally, Dinse took several calls from psychics, some of whom he said seemed "apologetic," but nevertheless felt they had "to help however they could." Contacted by Elizabeth's uncle, Dave Smart, PSI Tech gathered the company's "special operations team" of 14 professional "remote viewers," who attempted to discern from afar the location of Elizabeth's body. The same group had decided Elizabeth was killed within hours of her abduction, PSI Tech CEO Dane Spotts wrote on the company's Web site. "All people are born with natural psychic or sixth-sense abilities," writes Spotts, explaining his technique, which "result[s] in an accurate transfer of information from the viewer's unconscious mind into conscious awareness . . . During this process, the viewer becomes linked directly to the collective unconscious." Using the process, Spotts said, his team created sketches which it believed matched the burial vault in the foothills of Salt Lake City. The vault -- which is a simple concrete shaft protected by a steel grate -- "is a special and consecrated place," Jones said. He said he balked at allowing the group of visionaries into the crypt. "I said, 'I'm not going to open the vault unless there is a police presence.' I have the key. I guard that with the trust of the Native American people of Utah." Dave Smart called the police for assistance, and two lead case investigators shortly arrived. "They showed up and we went in," Jones recalled. But Spotts was not satisfied with the search, calling it a "cursory peek." He questions why a trained cadaver dog was not allowed inside the crypt. "I don't know how that dog is trained, but I do know there are 75 remains in there," retorts Jones. Dave Smart added that he was satisfied with how the police handled the situation. He said the detectives responded promptly and assured him that his niece was not down there. Spotts remains unsatisfied, and believers have peppered Jones' office with more than two dozen angry e-mail messages. "Is Elizabeth's body inside this Native American burial tomb?" Spotts asks. "We still can't rule it out. As far as I am concerned, the site has not been officially cleared." kcantera@sltrib.com mvigh@sltrib.com

[Devil_Anse]

Thank you for your reasoned reply.

I must tell you, though, that frankly, I was being sarcastic when I said that about the "frame-up." I see now why people on freerepublic put that thing, "/sarcasm off," at the end, when they mean to sneer a little.

You are so right, when you say that if the police really wanted to frame a guy, they'd do a better job of it than simply changing the reporting of what the little girl said. (Such things have indeed been done by police, but I just don't see where they are being done in this case.)

You opened my eyes to another thing: why give a suspected person notice of something--so he can have a chance to discard/destroy evidence? BTW, I wonder if anyone, Ricci included, threw away any white baseball caps, once they heard the witness had supposedly seen the perp with one?

There is one thing, though. Unlike Burke Ramsey, it appears that MK was made available to the police from the first. I guess the police realized they had a golden opportunity: they figured they could portray MK's evidence any way they wanted to. I think they have overdone it, b/c now some people (including myself) begin to wonder if she really saw all that they claim she saw.

If Lois was in every interview of Mary Katherine, that was not good practice, IMO. I can understand her wanting to be nearby. I wish Lois could have stood just outside during her interviews, though. But overall, the fact that the Smarts were willing to let the kid talk to police from the first, speaks well for them. I mean, it makes them appear less suspicious regarding a crime in which family are always the first potential suspects.

You may know this, but I believe it's been said by either police, or Ed and Lois, that there was a clue to the abductor's identity not just in the sound of his individual voice, but also in the content of what he said within MK's hearing. They have not told the public all that was said.

[Utah Girl]

Yes, BYU winning games always puts me in a good mood. :)

[Utah Girl]

The months-old search for Elizabeth Smart took a strange twist last week when two Salt Lake City detectives -- at the behest of a group of psychics -- ventured into a crypt that holds the skeletal remains of ancient American Indians.

Officials from PSI Tech, a Seattle-based company, claimed that more than a dozen of its members had determined the location of Elizabeth's body by using a special psychic process they call "Technical Remote Viewing."

Independently, the company claims, 14 visionaries all pointed to a concrete burial vault built by the state of Utah about 10 years ago. The vault, located in Salt Lake City's This Is the Place State Heritage Park in the mouth of Emigration Canyon, contains the remains of 75 American Indians, many unearthed by construction projects around Utah.

But the crypt was searched and no trace of the 14-year-old girl, snatched June 5 from her bedroom, could be found, said state archaeologist Kevin Jones.

"We searched it very thoroughly. The whole thing was very secure," Jones said. "I certainly didn't want to start opening coffins."

The investigators' fruitless Aug. 28 search through cobwebs and stale air was one example of how thousands of tips from self-proclaimed psychics have occupied overworked detectives desperately trying to crack the baffling case.

"Many of these [psychic tipsters] are well-meaning, but these tips certainly take manpower away from the investigation," said Salt Lake City Police Chief Rick Dinse.

Still, he said that investigators will check out every "psychic vision" if the tip is specific.

"I don't encourage it or discourage it," Dinse said, speaking of psychics sharing their beliefs. In fact, Dinse said officers still may recruit a psychic to assist with the case.

"To this point, we haven't brought in any psychics -- but I don't rule anything out," Dinse said.

While recently staffing the police department's Elizabeth Smart tip line personally, Dinse took several calls from psychics, some of whom he said seemed "apologetic," but nevertheless felt they had "to help however they could."

Contacted by Elizabeth's uncle, Dave Smart, PSI Tech gathered the company's "special operations team" of 14 professional "remote viewers," who attempted to discern from afar the location of Elizabeth's body.

The same group had decided Elizabeth was killed within hours of her abduction, PSI Tech CEO Dane Spotts wrote on the company's Web site.

"All people are born with natural psychic or sixth-sense abilities," writes Spotts, explaining his technique, which "result[s] in an accurate transfer of information from the viewer's unconscious mind into conscious awareness . . . During this process, the viewer becomes linked directly to the collective unconscious."

Using the process, Spotts said, his team created sketches which it believed matched the burial vault in the foothills of Salt Lake City.

The vault -- which is a simple concrete shaft protected by a steel grate -- "is a special and consecrated place," Jones said. He said he balked at allowing the group of visionaries into the crypt. "I said, 'I'm not going to open the vault unless there is a police presence.' I have the key. I guard that with the trust of the Native American people of Utah."

Dave Smart called the police for assistance, and two lead case investigators shortly arrived. "They showed up and we went in," Jones recalled.

But Spotts was not satisfied with the search, calling it a "cursory peek." He questions why a trained cadaver dog was not allowed inside the crypt.

"I don't know how that dog is trained, but I do know there are 75 remains in there," retorts Jones.

Dave Smart added that he was satisfied with how the police handled the situation. He said the detectives responded promptly and assured him that his niece was not down there.

Spotts remains unsatisfied, and believers have peppered Jones' office with more than two dozen angry e-mail messages. "Is Elizabeth's body inside this Native American burial tomb?" Spotts asks. "We still can't rule it out. As far as I am concerned, the site has not been officially cleared."

***********************************************
Paragraphs are our friends. And I'm not picking on varina, I will do this to any article I see posted without the < p > in them.

[Utah Girl]

police allowed several neighbors and family members inside the house during that critical time.

Interesting article...

[Devil_Anse]

Geez. It took you long enough.

Every day, I would come to this forum and eagerly read the posts b/c I am interested in the Smart case. I found many good news articles, maps, etc., on here. But I didn't just read those things. I read the comments, too. I often read political articles and political forums. I'm sure you know that when people are talking about presidents, or some of the lifestyle topics which have been made into political issues, it can get very nasty. I would sometimes post on a couple of forums which were affiliated with regional newspapers. In particular, I found that the northwest seems to have a lot of people who, shall we say, don't agree with me politically.

Sometimes you get sick of all the fighting. I was also interested in crime, what is called "true crime," so I was pleased when I saw there were forums full of amateur sleuths, too--even on freerepublic, since this case is after all newsworthy. I've visited about 6 forums on which crime news is discussed, and this is the only one I've seen on which the posters argue about petty stuff which is not relevant to the crime. Theorizing about crime is usually a refreshing break from arguing about politics.

Surely everyone here hates crime? Seems to me that's a good starting point for theorizing instead of arguing all the time.

I could see why people would want to know about Utah, and would want to consider the old polygamy thing, but when people just continually, over and over and over, went on and on about it, I wondered why. I began to think those people really weren't interested in polygamy and its injustice, but simply disliked organized religion. It occurred to me that most people I've known who sneered at organized religions, especially Christian ones, had been political liberals. I don't care for political liberals.

Go back and read your posts from the past. Read those of some of your friends, too. There are some very petty insults, and some people, for long periods, would do nothing but post polygamy horror stories of dubious relevance and credibility, without even attempting to tie them into the discussion. And.... the Mountain Meadows massacre? Wasn't that in 1847? Come ON! Sitting there, unable to post b/c I hadn't taken the trouble to sign up, I would be mad at some of the really vicious one-liners. They weren't even clever. (Although yesterday varina davis did do one clever one, when she and Jolly Green argued about Mormon wives, and she said, how many have you had?) I don't agree with rudely calling today's Mormons Evil Polygamists, but I have to admit at least it was reasonably clever, and he is more than capable of defending himself.

I said I wasn't going to make friends with that first post. I knew it couldn't go on this thread, I knew it might as well go directly to the Smoky Backroom. So that's where I put it. I picked a poster who I felt could easily deal with it, Jolly Green, and posted to him on this thread that I'd vented about this board in the Smoky Backroom. I expected some of the curious to go there and knew many of them would be irritated when they saw it. My remarks were the result of about 3 months of holding in my outrage at some of the cheap shots I'd read here day after day. It's called "venting," and I'm glad I finally took the trouble to do it.

And there you go with that "LITTLE MAN" stuff. What is THAT supposed to accomplish? Besides, if you'd read all the past posts, you'd know that all the males on this board are large---over 6', etc. Seems to me that jo6pac ruminated about that one time.

[Devil_Anse]

Believe what you want to believe, but I'm not Jengaio. I'm not going to now proceed to slam Jengaio's posts to prove this to you, either.

I was surprised to see that post, the one that got deleted, that had the ethnic name-calling in it. I still am trying to figure out how the person who seemed humble and friendly would have made such a post. But then, I never saw the whole post--only the line from it you quoted. It's possible that "Jengaio" is a pair of friends who post together under one name. I, however, am not one of them, nor do I know what state they live in, or anything else about them, except that Jengaio claimed to be a homosexual woman, a mother, and a languages expert.

[Utah Girl]

Yes, thanks. I always get those two canyons mixed up.

[jo6pac]

"Certainly we're closer to solving this case than we were when it began. We've done a lot of work on this," Dinse said. "We think we are eventually going to solve this." Dinse added investigators are still sifting through many leads -- and other potential suspects.

"We still have people we are looking at, some of them -- if not all of them -- are still centered around Ricci," Dinse said. "There are plenty of leads surrounding him that we are going through."

That doesn't translate to "From what we can see they are narrowing in on the culprits..." to me.

Sorta like saying "Here we are in San Diego. Certainly we're closer to Bangkok than we were when we left Chula Vista."