Elizabeth Smart thread, September 5, 2002-?

[IamHD]

ES missing since 6-5-2002 and will have been missing for 3 months in a few hours, so I thought that this would be an approriate time to start a new thread.

[Utah Girl]

Bye, y'all. Have fun this evening, I'm off to the BYU-Hawaii football game. :)

[varina davis]

Interesting that the Ricci haters on this thread continually accuse those who doubt his guilt, but are unwilling to consider any other possibility, like Javier Sickler or former LDS Bishop Spencer Dixon, both of whom appear to have MOs related to sexual assaults on young girls.

BTW, one of these men might have been a runner, something Liz was interested in doing.

[Devil_Anse]

You needn't fill me in too much, Utah Girl, b/c I've read every one of these threads from the beginning. I've been lurking on freerepublic for 2-3 years.

You have no idea why some people are so against organized religion? I do. Some of them are against it b/c leaders of certain organized religions have spoken very bluntly against certain issues which are perceived as political. Two such areas are homosexuality and abortion.
My ideas on those two topics don't really coincide with some of the draconian pronouncements made by the Catholic church or the Mormon church, but there is room for all different opinions.

Some people have perhaps been sexually abused by a clergy member. They forget that plenty of people have been sexually abused by persons who are not clergy members. Some of the most disgusting things you will ever read are the accounts given by some of the boys who were molested by priests. That still doesn't make me blame the Catholic church for the molestation of these boys--only for the coverup. And even then, the good done by the Catholic church still outweighs the bad done by these criminal priests.

It is not only churches that cover up sex scandals and molestation of children. In fact, have you ever heard of a child-molester who DIDN'T try to hide the molestation?

There could have been some sort of molestation of Elizabeth Smart. So far, there has been absolutely nothing to make anyone think this hypothetical molestation had to do with her church. If there was molestation of Elizabeth, perhaps it was done by Richard Ricci.

[sandude]

Do you have inside info?

No. I only meant to point out that there was another possibility for why the police withheld the information about the blue van. I felt that my reason was more plausible but of course it won't be a popular scenario because it doesn't paint either the police or the Smarts as a villain.

So the cops are going to let a possible suspect skate because of MK's life?

What??? Please restate S-G.

Oh, but everything must be fine now, she's not in any danger.

I don't think she is in danger because I think that Richard was the perp. He can't hurt her now and MK would have no idea who the conspirators were. I know what Ed was quoted as saying and I might be wrong but I'm still not convinced that it wasn't Ricci. Time will tell.

The "family" is running the show now.

The family appears to be running their own investigation. This investiagation may be coordinated with LE, but I'm not sure of that. The investigation by the SLPD/FBI is not being run by the Smarts. So to answer your question, it depends on which show you're speaking of.

By the way, how many interviews did MK have outside the presence of her mother?

From what I've read there were no interviews of MK without her mother being present. What is your problem with that? Do you think that MK wouldn't be able to talk freely about what she saw with her mother present? Do you think that Lois would not want to know who took Elizabeth? Do you think that Lois already knows and wants to keep that from LE? Perhaps your thoughts are different than these but I can't read your mind so why don't you just post what it is your thinking and I'll get back to you.

[varina davis]

So all of you who have accused us of bashing, get out of the pulpit and stop preaching

Hear, hear! Spore. Great post. Some of the smug, sanctimonious posts are a real pain.

[Sherlock]

BTW, one of these men might have been a runner, something Liz was interested in doing.

Could be if they are 5'8", athletic, have short dark hair, light pants, tan denim jacket, and wear a white baseball hat. However since Dinse said probably all of their suspects are associates of Ricci I doubt it's either of these two.

[sandude]

Haven't you seen that when quotes and facts start getting in the way of the "Ricci Did It" crowd, they resort to name calling and base comments?

Please present one fact that clears Richard Ricci. Someone's quote does not constitute a fact because it could be in error or an outright fabrication. Can I present one solid fact that shows he's guilty? No, but there is some circumstantial evidence that put him in a bad light in regards to this case and he refused to clear it up.

[Devil_Anse]

All I'm asking is that you draw the connection for us, between this article you posted, and the disappearance of Elizabeth Smart. Is that too much to ask, on a thread devoted to the disappearance of Elizabeth Smart?

Oh, sure, Sherlock tried to "turn this thread into a debate about Religion." Maybe Sherlock was just racking his/her brain for the reason you keep posting stuff that has NOTHING TO DO WITH ELIZABETH'S DISAPPEARANCE. You continually seek to show scandals of the Mormon church. People acknowledge to you that the church is not perfect, its members are not perfect, nobody's perfect--yet none of this satisfies you, you keep beating the dead horse. People get your point, already.

Show us the connection. I'm no champion of members of any clergy who molest children--or of any secular child molesters, either.

Will this satisfy you: Yes, IMO, any organization is likely to try to hide it if one of its members or employees is molesting children. Yes, police sometimes hide their internal affairs. Can people move on now?

Now please draw the connection between the article, and Elizabeth Smart's disappearance. If there is a connection, all of us who want to know what happened to her might actually get closer to the answer.

[Devil_Anse]

I notice that lately you've been combining your one-liner put-downs with some theorizing, such as theorizing whether the person who abducted Elizabeth might have been a runner. I, for one, am glad to see some substance.

[sandude]

I always thought the person who was in the house (if there was a person) had to be someone who "wouldn't be out of place and would know the recent habits of the family (no dog, no alarm system). Not someone who hadn't been in the home since the previous summer.

Do you think that it is possible that Ricci the cat burgler could have entered the house in the day's before the abduction to case the situation? It the alarm went off when he entered the house he could have simply left.

[Devil_Anse]

Devil Anse was the leader of the Hatfield family. I needed a name, and saw that name in a book I was reading.

Considering the feuding that goes on in this place, I would have thought you were on a first-name basis with at least some of the Hatfields and the McCoys.

[freedox]

I don't know if this qualifies as a valid connection to the Smart case, but that picture of Dixon almost took my breath away......he looks like a dead ringer for Bret Edmunds. Anyone else see this? Just a coincidence?

[Devil_Anse]

Hello, sandude. As you can see, I am new here, but I have read all the freerepublic Elizabeth Smart threads since the very beginning.

If Ricci had entered the Smart house the day b/f, to test the alarm, and the alarm went off, wouldn't the alarm company have a record of that?

About your question, asking people to name one thing that shows Ricci's innocence. Here's one, I think: It's always bothered me that Ricci is 6' tall, and the abductor was described first as 5'8", then 5'8"--5'10", then 5'9".

In spite of that, I still have suspicions about Ricci. But it does give me pause.

[Devil_Anse]

Where is the picture? I didn't see a link to it but would like to see it.

You know, if you read that article about the 13-yr-old girl who accuses Dixon, notice it only happened on August 24. The man's already been arrested, bail was set, he raised bail. He was a bishop then, and he's already an ex-bishop? Far from sweeping it under the rug, it sounds to me like the Mormon church took swift action against this man--even though his guilt has not yet been proved beyond a reasonable doubt. Cover-up by the church? Some cover-up! Here we are, across the United States, and we all know the man's name now, and know he was a Mormon, and know what he was accused of doing. I don't see any fault on the part of the Mormon church in the whole affair--they had a criminal in their midst, and they removed him.

We should at least give the guy the presumption of innocence till his trial or plea, though, shouldn't we?

[varina davis]

Dinse said probably

LOL

[varina davis]

Can I present one solid fact that shows he's guilty? No, but there is some circumstantial evidence that put him in a bad light in regards to this case and he refused to clear it up.

I guess you mean he didn't tell LE what they wanted to hear.

[Devil_Anse]

Has Angela Ricci's personality somehow taken over your body?

Because she used almost those exact same words on LKL.

Of course, she has a natural aversion to police, having been convicted of drug possession.

[Devil_Anse]

Oh, wait--was she convicted of drug possession, or was it forgery? It was one of them. I keep getting her various hobbies mixed up.

[varina davis]

such as theorizing whether the person who abducted Elizabeth might have been a runner.

Actually, I theorized that a couple of months ago, but most posters were too intent on Ricci to give it the time of day. And moreover, I'm not just theorizing about one of the men I mentioned being a runner -- though I don't know if it's another person by the same name.

[varina davis]

that picture of Dixon almost took my breath away......he looks like a dead ringer for Bret Edmunds.

PLEASE post a link to the picture! Thanks