Elizabeth Smart thread, August 31-September 7, 2002

[IamHD]

My prayers go out to the Ricci family during this time. RR was sent up the river and used as a scape-goat. No evidence, whatsoever, linking him to the disappearance of Elizabeth.

May he rest in peace.

[sandude]

If the police do suspect someone in the neighborhood, I don't think they will make their suspicions public until they have solid evidence.

This is true. Anytime you go after people of influence and power you had better have all of your ducks in a row. Only time will tell if someone in the hood is involved or not. I find the odds very low but that is my opinion.

The fact that the two most public figures in this case were both hospitalized in "near death" conditions is something that I cannot overlook. It suggests to me the distinct possibility that these two men had information that was potentially damaging to someone with power......someone with enough power to have them silenced.

This I find intriguing. I've done some thinking on this and so I'll tell you what my speculation is.

Warning: Entering a Speculation Zone

Sorry for the dramatics but we gotta have a little fun around here.

There is a known connection between Edmonds and Ricci. Heroin addiction. They may have known each other but we have no knowledge of that. Each of them got their supply of heroin from a dealer. Maybe it was the same guy, who knows. The people who control the drug flow in Salt Lake know the dealers and probably know who most of the hard-core junkies are. We know that Richard was shooting his mouth off about how easy it would be to burglarize the Smart home. I'm sure he would have mentioned this to his supplier. Maybe his pusher, or someone up the ladder, had a thing for young girls, especially virgins. They talk about this and about Elizabeth and decide to grab her for some fun. Richard gets the added bonus of getting his drugs for free and maybe a little money, who knows, only speculating here.

When the crime starts making national news then the conspirators move into damage control. They find out that Edmonds is of interest and decide that if the police are looking for him then maybe it will keep the heat off of Ricci. The next time Edmonds comes for his fix they give him some money and some drugs so that he can get the hell out of town. Maybe they tell him that they'll fix him up with more drugs once he gets to the east coast. At some point he is given the dose that is meant to kill him. They wouldn't want him telling the authorities that somebody had helped him get away. Perhaps this is the information that LE got from Edmonds that they found helpful.

Now when the investigation squarely comes down on Richard they got a bigger problem. As long as he's alive, he could decide to talk. So they get somebody down at the prison kitchen to fix old Rick a special meal.

Speculation Finished

I find the above scenario more plausible than anything that deals with someone from the neighborhood. That is unless one of the neighbors is secretly a member of the drug trafficking operations in Salt Lake. Some of those guys have money and live in nice homes. The problem is that once the FBI starts looking into their finances they can usually spot that there are unexplained funds at their disposal. I would think that all of the neighbors would have had this kind of a check done on them.

[Sherlock]

SL Trib: Mitchell, owner of Mitchell's Nursery, 2184 E. 3300 South, told The Salt Lake Tribune last month that Ricci worked until 7 p.m. on June 6, and would have had only one day off over the next five days. That makes it unlikely Ricci was setting fence posts June 7 in Cheyenne, about 450 miles from Salt Lake City.

So what days did he work and what days did he have off, does this convoluted statement make sense to you?

Ricci said he never picked up the Jeep - he did NOT say he didn't drop it off.

This is wrong, he said he never had it, never brought it back, thus never took anything out of it and never left with anyone across the street in a blue van.

Police discounted the machete early on. Again, it's cited in several sources. To keep posting these things is becoming overkill.

Moul said Ricci was wearing a machette when he returned the Jeep. Police said they found nothing on a machette they happened to find in Morse's shed.

Regarding the Ricci "sweating" issue - has anyone ever gotten in a car that's been parked in the sun all day? It's dern hot. If anyone knows the weather conditions in SLC on June 8, it would help. Additionally, drug addicts SWEAT, and if he was nothing else, Ricci was a druggie.

Moul and Thurber mentioned the sweating because they were abnormal and noticable. Thurber was his next door neighbor and saw him often.

[Sherlock]

The fact that Thurber interpreted Ricci's comments as being "mushy" (i.e., sexual) makes me wonder about Thurber's level of maturity.

I just hope if I'm someday involved in a kidnapping and possible murder I get jury members as naive and willing to take pleasure in a scumbag like myself as all you posters are.

[Jolly Green]

It might be understandable that he would be "nervous, confused, drinking beer at 8:30 in the morning" if he was waiting to be questioned by police, even if he was innocent.

I hate to interject some logic into one of your posts, but drinking bear at 8:30 in the morning was in direct violation of his parole and would have meant an immediate revocation of his parole.

[freedox]

"Ya know, I am real tired of the mantra that no useful description of the perp was disseminated after Elizabeth's abduction. The vital description was there. 5'8", Caucasian, dark hair, baseball hat, etc."

I didn't mean to push your button there, Utah Girl, but the fact is, "5'8", Caucasian, dark hair, baseball hat, etc." is NOT a useful description when asking the public to be on the lookout for someone. First, let's get rid of the baseball cap.....it can be removed. That leaves us with 5'8", caucasian, dark hair. How many men in America do you think fit that generalized description? Once again, the purpose of the Amber Alert is to enlist the public's help in locating a suspect and/or victim. Do you think the SLCPD wanted a call in on every 5'8" dark haired caucasian male in the state of Utah? Would that have been helpful to them? No. It would have been a waste of their time. Let me ask you this, since you live in the area.......did you pick up the phone and call the SLCPD to report every 5'8" dark haired caucasian man you saw in the days following the abduction? If not, why didn't you, if it was a "vital description" of the perpetrator?

I don't mean to come down on you personally, Utah Girl, but I think we are all tired of mantras on here. My original post wasn't meant to be snide or derogatory. There may be good reason why the vital elements of this case have been kept so closely guarded from the public. I'm simply pointing out that they have been guarded, and as a result the Amber Alert system has been greatly hindered.

[Sherlock]

The Smarts' son said that when Lois saw the cut screen in the kitchen window, she screamed. If the screen was cut, I assume the window was open and Lois was probably facing it when she screamed. Does anyone know if that kitchen window faces toward the Voss house?

This is naive. Voss's house was several blocks from the Smarts. Remember he heard a car race by his house. He lives on Tomahawk. When he heard the scream like nothing he had heard before all the dogs in the neighborhood started barking and Voss went out and looked north into the barren hills where the scream came from, the opposite direction of the Smarts house.

The Smarts next door neighbor also heard a seperate sound, a voice or a bark, at 3:00 am and looked out their window but didn't see anything. There was no indication anyone outside the house heard Lois scream, which was in a closed house after 4:00 am.

[Neenah]

Salt Lake City weather, June 8,2002

[freedox]

Ok, Sherlock, I'll play along. Show me a quote of anything Ricci reportedly said to Thurber that YOU would qualify as being "mushy" as opposed to being an apt description of an attractive, sweet young girl.

[sandude]

SMART: You know, I don't know that they're-I know they are still looking at everyone out there, but I know the major focus-and I will say that the chief of police did name Richard yesterday as a suspect, so he has been formally named as a suspect.

You're always jumpin on poor Ed for his lack of public speaking skills. Here is what I read into this. In a private conversation with the family the chief informed them that they had enough solid circumstantial evidence to charge Ricci as a suspect but that it was not appropriate to do so at this time because the investigation was still proceeding. Ed, in his fumbling, bumbling, way said what he said, probably realizing later on that S-G was going to give him hell for it.

Comment: Finally, Ed has been very adamant about believing Moul's story of Ricci picking up the Jeep. Ed insists Moul had no reason to lie. Well, Moul DID have a reason - because, as events developed, whoever picked up the Jeep may very well have been responsible for Liz's disappearance but Moul NEVER saw him. Or, to be very cynical: Moul knew exactly who it was and is covering for that person. The mileage may have been a red herring, if Moul was lying about the Jeep from the start. Have you ever driven through heavy, thick mud? It is impossible to remove it from every inch of your vehicle. How odd that there was no trace of anything (wheels, wheel wells, undercarriage, door jambs) for the police to use for evidence.

Ed's belief in Moul is based on what the police have told him. They obviously believe his account, at least the account that he gave the Grand Jury. It is possible to completely clean the mud off of a vehicle, might be tough, but possible. I read earlier that they did get mud off of the undercarriage of the vehicle and were able to make an analysis. I don't think it matters who took the Jeep from Mouls on the 30th of May. I believe that this was a criminal conspiracy. Any of these people could have gotten the Jeep that day. I also believe that our friend Richard was part of this conspiracy. There is a lot of good circumstantial evidence to support my belief.

[Utah Girl]

Well, then the revised description described even more men. Have you heard my story about the Top Gun bandit in SLC several years ago. Some guy was wearing a Top Gun hat while he committed armed robberies at banks. The police had many witnesses, they put out a sketch. We'd talk about it at work, wondering who it was. Well, guess what, the armed robber turned out to be someone I knew. He was a customer at the pharmacy where I worked. Shocked us in a big way. Afterwards, looking at the sketch, the pharmacists and I were like "Wow, great sketch of John Doe, how did we miss not linking him to the sketch." So everyone is salivating over the fact that there hasn't been a sketch released, it may or may have not made any difference.

The end to the Top Gun story is that John (not his real name) had lost his lucrative job as an engineer. He didn't tell his wife right away, and then grew frantic as he needed money for a false paycheck. So he'd drive up to SLC and hold up banks with a gun. He netted like $4000, it was very sad and pretty stupid of him. He went to prison, his wife divorced him, he lost everything.

[freedox]

"There was no indication anyone outside the house heard Lois scream, which was in a closed house after 4:00 am."

Thank you for answering my question, Sherlock. I see that somehow, you seem to know that the kitchen window was NOT open when Lois went in and discovered the cut screen. Hmmmmmm....a cut screen on a CLOSED window.....seems odd to me. Oh well.....given your level of assuredness, I'm more than happy to let your statement stand.

[Utah Girl]

And again, the original description doesn't vary much from the revised description. Here is the revised description:

Caucasian Man
30 to 40 Years Old
5' 8" to 5'10"
Dark Hair
Hair on Arms
Hair on back of hands
Light Jacket
Light Golf Hat or English Driving Hat
Dark Shoes

There are just no breaks in this case. What if Mary Katherine had told her parents right away? What if either one of the girls had screamed? What if Ricci had been more forthcoming?

So you think the Amber alert shouldn't have been issued? Elizabeth's abduction did fit all the requirements. The alert did work as intended, we all knew about the abduction.

And by now, the perp has probably gotten rid of the English riding cap. My dad owns one, but he isn't 5'8" with dark hair, he is shorter with no hair. :)

[Sherlock]

Ok, Sherlock, I'll play along. Show me a quote of anything Ricci reportedly said to Thurber that YOU would qualify as being "mushy" as opposed to being an apt description of an attractive, sweet young girl.

All I can tell you is this is a neighbor that considered Ricci to be a friend, never could have imagined he could do something like this, yet Ricci's personality change and bizarre statements and actions changed his mind that day and he thinks he did it. No need to vilify the man.

I don't understand why you people take such pleasure in a heroin-addicted lifelong convict, a man that brandished a gun and threatened people violently in a bank robbery, that attempted to murder a police officer, that broke into people's houses while they were sleeping and went into children's bedrooms, and flipped off the Smart family, law enforcement, and the American public in refusing to answer the kingpin quetions of a muddy jeep and who he left the repair shop with in this tragic, tragic case. God help America.

[Utah Girl]

Wife still stands by Ricci

      Angela Ricci has lost her soul mate.
      Less than three days after her husband, Richard Ricci, was taken off life support and died, Angela Ricci wonders if police and the public will ever see her husband as more than an ex-con the police have long labeled as the top potential suspect in the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping.

Angela Ricci talks about her late husband Richard Ricci

Johanna Workman, Deseret News

      "No one knows the Richard I, my family, our friends and loved ones know," Angela said Monday morning. "His sense of humor was heartwarming, his laughter uplifting and his kindness gentle and unconditional."
      The decision to take Ricci, 48, off life support was not a difficult one for family members once they heard doctors' grim prognosis. Ricci, who was called Rick by family and friends, was pulled off life support Friday night at University Hospital and pronounced dead 12 minutes later at 7:28 p.m. He never regained consciousness after suffering a massive brain hemorrhage Tuesday while in his cell at the Utah State Prison.
      He was already unconscious when his wife arrived at the hospital Tuesday night. "I got to kiss his big toe before he went into surgery," Angela Ricci said. Following Ricci's six-hour surgery, she spent the next several hours at her husband's bedside.
      "He did never respond," she said, and a few days later the family had life-support withdrawn.
      "We made the right decision," Angela Ricci said. "I'm at peace with it."
      But with her husband gone and Elizabeth Smart's kidnapping still a mystery, Angela Ricci repeated her assertion that her husband cooperated fully with investigators.
      The Riccis submitted to several hours of questioning and allowed police to search their Kearns trailer home numerous times without a search warrant. "He knew he didn't do it and I believe he thought he was being cooperative."
      Looking back, however, Angela Ricci said she regrets allowing her husband to be questioned for so long without an attorney present. Angela and Richard Ricci spent their last day together on June 14, when six law-enforcement officers arrived to arrest him.
      Richard Ricci got up from the porch swing, where the two enjoyed lounging together, and walked over to the police car, where he was subsequently handcuffed.

Richard Ricci, left.

      "I asked if I could just give him a hug and they said 'No,' because once they've been handcuffed, you can't touch them," Angela Ricci said. "I had no idea that he would not come back home."
      The Riccis were married on Valentine's Day 2002 at a small ceremony in Mesquite, Nev.
      They met through Angela's brother and fell in love almost immediately. Unable to use her left hand at the time because of a car accident, she said her husband helped nurse her back to health, feeding and caring for her. "He was so sweet to me. He helped me do everything. I just fell in love with him."
      The Smart family issued a statement Saturday expressing their "heartfelt condolences" to Angela Ricci.
      Still, the Smarts have long held suspicions that Ricci, who worked as a handyman in their Federal Heights house, was somehow involved in Elizabeth's June 5 kidnapping. Police admit that with Ricci dead, solving this nearly 3-month-old case is now more problematic.
      Investigators may never know how Ricci's white Jeep Cherokee logged an extra 500 to 1,000 miles between May 30 and June 8 or if Ricci really was asleep with his wife the night of Elizabeth's abduction.
      Angela Ricci said Monday that her husband was "always accounted for" — and that he was not the person who dropped the Jeep off to Neth's Auto Repair. The keys to Ricci's Jeep were been stolen in April while Ricci and a relative were inside a smoke shop, Angela Ricci said.
      Despite no answers to nagging questions, police say their case "does have breath."
      The Smart family seems to agree and hopes that Ricci's death will prompt others to come forward.
      "I don't know that he is the end-all in this case," said Elizabeth's father, Ed Smart.
      The Smarts want to know the identity of the person who allegedly left Neth's Auto Repair with Ricci after dropping off the Jeep for repairs June 8. The Smarts have offered a $3,000 reward to the first person who can identify that mystery man or identify who tried to break into the home of Steven and Jeannie Wright in the early morning hours of July 24. Jeannie Wright is a sister to Elizabeth's mother, Lois. Ricci was in prison on an alleged parole violation at the time of the incident, but the Smarts say the similarities between the break-in and Elizabeth's kidnapping were "unnerving."

Wedding photo supplied by Angela Ricci of her and husband Richard.

Photo supplied by Angela Ricci

      The family has also offered a $250,000 reward for the safe return of Elizabeth. Salt Lake City and the FBI are also offering at $25,000 reward for any information leading authorities to Elizabeth or the arrest and conviction of her abductor.
      Ricci was charged with theft and burglary for stealing items from the Smarts' residence as well as a nearby Federal Heights residence. In the second burglary, court documents accused Ricci of going into a bedroom where someone was sleeping and stealing items out of the room.
      Those similarities between Elizabeth's kidnapping, where an armed intruder entered the room Elizabeth shared with her sister, Mary Katherine, have raised suspicions of both police and the Smarts.
      Still, authorities have no solid evidence linking Ricci directly to the kidnapping.
      Ed Smart has said that Mary Katherine recognized the voice of the abductor, but he and police have declined to elaborate. Mary Katherine described the suspect as a white male, 30 to 40 years old, 5-foot-8 to 5-foot-10, with dark hair. Mary Katherine told police the intruder also had hair on the back of his hands and arms and wore a light jacket, light golf hat and dark shoes.
      Jail records list Ricci as 6 feet tall, 180 pounds, with brown hair. Authorities also removed a tan golf hat from the next-door trailer of Ricci's father-in-law after the kidnapping. Ricci's father-in-law, however, has said Ricci never wore the hat.
      Angela Ricci is adamant that her husband was not involved in Elizabeth Smart's disappearance. But she realizes the investigation is out of her hands.
      "If they're going to charge Richard, they're going to charge Richard, whether he's dead or alive," Angela Ricci said. "If they're going to clear Richard, they're going to clear Richard, whether he's dead or alive. I just hope they do the right thing."
      Funeral services for Ricci are scheduled for Friday at 7:30 p.m. at the Peel Funeral Home in Magna following a 7 p.m. viewing. He has requested that his body be cremated.
     

[Sherlock]

Did you read my post? Of did you just not get it. Read the rest of it. The part about Lois is the only part in the post that is INSIGNIFICANT. But you lack the ability to be honest necessary to see the truth in it I believe.

[Sherlock]

Hmmmmmm....a cut screen on a CLOSED window.....seems odd to me.

So you're sticking by your knucklehead idea Lois scream started a bunch of dogs barking 3 blocks away and a man went out and looked the other direction? What is you're motivation for being so illogical?

[FR_addict]

He sure doesn't look 5'8" to 5'10" in the picture. He's definitely a lot taller than Angela.

I really think if MK recognized his voice in a voice lineup, it would be considered evidence and the police would said they had evidence that Ricci was the abductor.

She saw him next to Elizabeth in the bedroom and again later in the house. So it should have been very easy to figure out how much taller the abductor was compared to Elizabeth.

[Neenah]

The abductor didn't realize he had been spotted by Mary Katherine. All of the statements made in this case are consistent with that.

He sure knew she did see him, he talked to her, didn't he? So that was my point, at some time, he realized MK saw him, so he threatened what would happen to E if she told.

If it is not true that he knew MK has seen him, then why did The Smart family and other reports state it as so ?

I am leaving what I just typed...I just went on a search..typed in "Elizabeth Smart, Mary Katherine told to remain quiet"...Now I am upset!! WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THIS CASE IS PURE ...C-R-A-P !!...This is in part what the article says...

Two weeks ago, Elizabeth was reported taken by gunpoint from the bed shared by the two girls. Police said initially that the kidnapper warned 9-year-old Mary Katherine Smart to remain quiet, and that the little sister waited two hours before alerting her parents.

But police who interviewed the youngster three times now say that the man did not speak to the child.

"The threat was not made to Mary Katherine," Capt. Scott Atkinson said.

He said the police account changed as investigators with skills at interviewing child witnesses talked to the girl. Police also reviewed the 9-year-old witnesses' earlier two interviews with police, Atkinson said.

"I don't believe that she's changed her story," Atkinson said.

As for the search for the kidnapper, "we believe this man may be a trusted person in the neighborhood or community," the police captain said. The kidnapper was calm and "spoke nicely and dressed nicely."

Asked about this latest development in the investigation, Tom Smart, Elizabeth's uncle, told CBS News Radio Station KSL that "the fact that we don't believe it's a psychotic killer gives us great hope." ___________________________________________________________

Well !! Now I have to rack my brain here. WHEN DID THEY STOP REPORTING ON THIS? I am still reading and still hearing the story that MK was told not to tell....WHAT IS THE STORY NOW?

I think the PD and everyone on t.v. is/has confounded the public so bad...if this was the truth, why doesn't the emphasis on her not telling be made clear?

This is rotton thru and thru..the whole thing from the beginning is a wild goose chase and everyone is slipping in the goose poop along the way.

the wacky source

[Utah Girl]

Um, we heard that in a press conference right around June 19. I'm not near my home computer, that is where my notes are from that press conference. Initially, the Smarts thought that the abductor threatened both Mary Katherine and Elizabeth, and that is what they told police. But after the child forensic psychologists interviewed her FOUR times, the clarification came that the abductor only spoke to Elizabeth and threatened her, but the threat was bad enough to MK, who only heard it, that she didn't notify her parents for a couple of hours. She was on her way to her parents room right after the perp and Elizabeth left the bedroom, but she saw them again, and apparently whatever was said scared her into not saying anything. When I get back to Utah, I'll post my comments again from that press conference.

[sandude]

You're a little excited there Neenah and it makes it hard to follow your point. I beleive the original story was erroneous and was corrected to reflect what really happened. I find nothing remarkable about this correction. Please settle down and explain your particular disagreement.