Elizabeth Smart thread, August 31-September 7, 2002

He lingered more over what MK had witnessed and seem to imply that she did recognize something about him (Ricci). But he said he couldn't discuss what she did or did not recognize. Otherwise same old thing.

"Well, I think the Amber alert derailed their plans."

Perhaps the Amber Alert served to derail a lot of things in this case. The Amber Alert is intended as a means of enlisting the public's help in locating a missing child. This is generally done by providing recent photos of the child, a description of his/her abductor, a description of how the abduction took place, and usually a description of the vehicle involved. Unfortunately, none of these things were done in this case. The most widely circulated photos of Elizabeth were apparently outdated, no useful physical description of her abductor was provided, details of the actual abduction scenario were kept closely guarded, and there was no known vehicle involved.

What real purpose did the Amber Alert serve in this case? As you have suggested, it might have frighten those involved into doing something rash. Perhaps unfortunately, it has also served to keep the public eye trained on what HAS been made publicly available in this case.......the Smart family, their community, and the Salt Lake City PD.

Thanks Brigette for posting your thoughts. Your life experiences have given you a different perspective than some of us. I also had brushes with people in the drug subculture when I was growing up and I know that they can be very nasty to each other. As far as we know the case against Richard was circumstantial. But there is nobody else for us to look at right now. I feel that Mary Katherine picked his voice out of an audio lineup. We should find out if that's correct in the next week or so. As time goes on we will find out everything that LE has that points to Richards involvement and we'll be able to make a better judgment about his involvement or not. Elizabeth's aunt stated the other day that he had not been helpful or cooperative in the investigation. We also know that he failed a lie detector test. For me it is easy to see why he was at the top of the list of potential suspects. The key word there is potential and that he was never actually charged with the crime. I know that there are instances in our history where innocent men have been charged with crimes and the circumstances and evidence in the crime were twisted to get a conviction. In this case there has not been a rush to charge Ricci with this crime. It has been reported that he was offered a limited immunity if he would just clear up the situation with the Jeep. His refusal to even admit that it was in his possession on the 8th of June is very puzzling unless he was involved with Elizabeth's abduction in some way or another.

You are correct in showing that there are many reasons that could have explained his behavior at the garage on the 8th of June. He couldn't clear the matter up because he couldn't admit that he even had the vehicle that day. Answering detective's questions about the seat cover etc. would have been an admission that he was in possession of the Jeep that day. That would have led to the question of where it had been to get so dirty. It appears that this is the question that he really didn't want to answer. We may never know for sure what really happened that day. But his refusal to clear it up leads us to the kind of speculation that others and I have posted. It is speculation, but it is consistent with what we know about this case at this point in time.

I'd like to go over one of the things that you posted and give you my thoughts.

Something tells me that Liz is stuffed in a neighbor's chest freezer in the ol' neighborhood. I hate to say it but that is what I believe.

Since we don't know where Liz is we have to consider this as a possibility. There are aspects of the case that conjure up images of David Westerfield entering the Van Damn home in the middle of the night. The way that the abductor was dressed might be consistent with someone just out for a stroll in the neighborhood. It hasn't been reported that Mary Katherine heard an automobile leave the scene. Perhaps Elizabeth knew the abductor and didn't feel threatened. Then there is Lois' statement in early August that MK recognized the perps voice. This last statement is critical. If it were a neighbors voice that MK recognized then he would have immediately moved to the top of the list of potential suspects. So far we have seen no indication of this. Any perpetrator could have dressed in the manner described. It would be easy to explain MK not hearing a car leave. There have been reports that Elizabeth was led through the bushes and her scent was followed to the curb, not to somebody's home. As for Elizabeth not alerting her family it could have been because she didn't feel threatened or just the opposite. She may have been gripped with fear. I'm confident that LE has looked at all of the neighbors and may still be checking them out. Chief Dinse gave the clear impression that they were still following leads in the case when he said in effect that he would only release his information about Ricci if he remained at the top of the list when the investigation is completed. I think the odds are very slim that someone from the neighborhood would have brazenly gone in the home and taken Elizabeth at gunpoint. It is possible that somebody nearby was a conspirator in the crime but even that is unlikely given what we know today.

Here is the Google page if that will help, there are many pages

Mary Katherine changed everything. Elizabeth was doomed no matter what. Maybe her witnessing the crime shortened the amount of suffering her poor sister was subjected to.

Just a thought.

It just crossed my mind. If Ricci did what you said, ..threatened E's life if MK told parents right away, then woudn't it be more beneficial for him to take both of them, rather than leave an eye witness?

Leaving MK there after seeing him, would leave room for her to tell who he was.

"They" say that she saw him, right down to the "hairy arms and backs of hands, clothing etc. and recognised his voice..if she recognised the voice, she HAD to put a name on who the voice belonged to, right?

Don't make sense to me at all, but then, I am very young and maybe with maturity, I will be able to reason better. LOL

No they heard a horrible sound that sounded like a rabbit being killed by a coyote.

'Definitely Something': They say that when a coyote kills a rabbit, the yelp resembles a child's cry. What Steve Voss heard in the early hours of June 5 sounded much more human.

Voss, a gynecologist, was on call so he was sleeping in the back bedroom of his Federal Heights home. He was awakened by his wife who was in the bathroom. They heard a car racing down the street. It was 2:30.

"I drifted and then I heard what I thought was a yell or a scream. It sounded female," Voss says. "I've never heard anything like it before."

Dogs started barking and Voss went downstairs to check on theirs. He looked at the hills behind Tomahawk Drive and saw nothing unusual. He went back to bed.

At 6 a.m., a neighbor dropped by and said, "Go check your kids.'' The Smarts' 14-year-old daughter has been kidnapped from their home on Kristianna Circle, the street below Tomahawk.

An hour later, a police officer knocked on the door and Voss recounted what he had heard.

"I suppose it could have been a coyote. I was half asleep," he says. "But it was definitely something."

Click Here for full article. The Salt Lake Tribune

"If it were a neighbors voice that MK recognized then he would have immediately moved to the top of the list of potential suspects. So far we have seen no indication of this."

You're right, we have seen no indication of the police openly investigating anyone close to the neighborhood. This is purely speculation, but I have always thought that it was possible that Ricci's primary value in this investigation was as a witness.....not as an actual suspect. Federal Heights is a pricey neighborhood. The people who live there are likely to have influential contacts and can most likely afford high priced lawyers. If the police do suspect someone in the neighborhood, I don't think they will make their suspicions public until they have solid evidence. Perhaps they had hoped that Ricci, a man who had worked in several homes in the neighborhood, could provide that evidence.

The fact that the two most public figures in this case were both hospitalized in "near death" conditions is something that I cannot overlook. It suggests to me the distinct possibility that these two men had information that was potentially damaging to someone with power......someone with enough power to have them silenced. Maybe I watch too many movies or read too many books, but I cannot dismiss the fact that the two "talkers" in this case have both met with serious misfortune. In my mind, it leaves open the possibility of a much bigger story than "Ricci did it."

There is one thing I wish we had and that is a chart with Ricci's known activities for the dates and times during the days the jeep was out of the repair shop.

That would be nice to have and I'm sure that it will be available to the public someday. His timeline will clear some of the mystery up.

We might find that Ricci really didn't have time to travel any distance from SLC, and it seems some here have already figured that out. Someone else, and not Ricci, had the jeep during those days it was out of the shop.

If somebody has information or a plausible theory that Richard couldn't have made a long trip during that time then they should post it. I haven't seen anything like that. There is no proof as to who had the Jeep during the time it was out of the shop other than the day it was returned. On that day we have Moul's testimony that Richard returned the Jeep. It is also possible that Richard was the one who secretly took the Jeep on the 30th of May. Nobody here knows one way or the other who took it that day. I think the Jeep was placed in one of the conspirator's garages during most of the time it was gone. It doesn't matter who put it there but I feel that it was hidden from public view. It was taken out on the night of the crime and on the 8th of June when it was returned to Moul's auto service center. How to account for the extra mileage is open to speculation. There is reason to believe that Richard was in the Jeep the night it was driven to Arlington Hills but we can't be sure at this point.

Did the repair shop clean the jeep thoroughly before the police picked it up?

It has been reported that Moul did clean the Jeep after it was returned. This was evident in the photographs of the Jeep showing it in the police impound garage. How thorough the cleaning was is hard to tell. There is still the distinct possibility that the accomplice's trace DNA may have been found. That may be helpful if they ever find the guy.

"I drifted and then I heard what I thought was a yell or a scream. It sounded female," Voss says."

The Smarts' son said that when Lois saw the cut screen in the kitchen window, she screamed. If the screen was cut, I assume the window was open and Lois was probably facing it when she screamed. Does anyone know if that kitchen window faces toward the Voss house?

Good questions Neenah. Let me see if I can help.

It just crossed my mind. If Ricci did what you said, ..threatened E's life if MK told parents right away, then wouldn't it be more beneficial for him to take both of them, rather than leave an eye witness?

The abductor didn't realize he had been spotted by Mary Katherine. All of the statements made in this case are consistent with that.

"They" say that she saw him, right down to the "hairy arms and backs of hands, clothing etc. and recognized his voice if she recognized the voice, she HAD to put a name on who the voice belonged to, right?

Not necessarily. I think she picked the voice out of an audio lineup that she listened to sometime in early August. All she would have said was "That is the voice I heard". The authorities would know whose voice she was listening to.

Why remove the seat covers but leave the newspapers on the floor with mud on them that could be traced possibly if he was out burying a body?

I thought he did take the newspapers. I don't buy he removed the seat cover because Moul is messy, you usually don't work in the back seat. And Angela claims there was no back seat cover. I don't think the newspapers were for fibers. What he thought might be on the seat cover we don't know, maybe muddiness or maybe something else that might have been on it. I think he returned it muddy because he was anxious to get it turned back in and it was closing time.

and I knew I did not kill Liz or have anything to do with the crime... I'd say he probably did not trust the cops at all and was worried if he turned the stuff over that they may try to pin it on him due to the huge profile and attention the case was getting

I have no doubt he was in on this. His friends think he was. I think the breakin was planned earlier, thus the May 30 date, but they were held up by Lois father's funeral. This time gap May 30 - Jun 5, if someone else took Ricci's Jeep Ricci would have at least called Moul to check on it and found out it was gone and probably reported it stolen if it was. If he were innocent he would have answered all the questions and probably never have gone back to jail. His only charges were a burglary and a robbery he admitted to anyway and he never would have gotten pinned with the armed bank robbery. Even if Ricci thought he was being set up his best bet would have been to tell the truth and hope for a jury with a couple posters on this thread and his lawyer could get him off, the alternative was the rest of his life in jail for certain. Police now are saying they don't have the evidence and wouldn't have charged him without more, what they've said all along. I don't think he would have been convicted if they couldn't have proven it beyond a shadow of a doubt to a jury. I think they have much more evidence than what they're admitting to for whatever reason.

There were plenty of criminals where I lived growing up too and they followed Ricci's pattern. They were pretty normal and likable usually but there were times where they just seemed to flip out and get into their criminal behavior mode for brief periods, similar to Ricci in this case

read one place that this seat cover was an Indian blanket. Can anybody help out here?

Saddle Blankets

Jeep source

Like these?

You usually find cases like this aren't that complicated. The most basic answer usually turns out to be the right one.

This is one of the best posts I have read. Thanks, Brigette.

Ya know, I am real tired of the mantra that no useful description of the perp was disseminated after Elizabeth's abduction. The vital description was there. 5'8", Caucasian, dark hair, baseball hat, etc. When the police revised the description, they added details, didn't change the description much. Elizabeth was taken from her room by gunpoint, her little sister was a witness. What, we have to have a blow by blow account before an alert is put out? I'm wasting my breath here.

Moul apparently didn't follow up on the Jeep because Angela had explained to him they needed the Jeep back for some kind of emergency so Moul just let it ride for a while hoping it would show back up. I wonder if Moul called the Ricci's between May 30 - Jun 8, I'm sure Angela didn't tell Moul they needed it for an emergency for 10 days. This 10 days is also what makes me think the caper was delayed by Lois' father's funeral, I think they probably planned to roll right away when they got the Jeep running. And I think this explains why the milkman saw the 5'8" guy with dark hair scoping out the neighborhood on the morning of Jun 3 checking if the cars had left yet.

I wish the SLCPD would tell us the make & model of the two cars in Shriner's parking lot, I'm sure they know. If they weren't involved in the crime they should tell us that. However, since one of the driver's fit the description of the suspect, I think they probably were involved.

And in the depths of addiction, people will do anything for money. And if they are high, who know what they will do? Normal easy-going people turn into monsters. I used to work in a pharmacy, and I saw nice people go crazy when they couldn't get their drugs. One guy actually lunged over the counter.

The article also said that Richard Ricci was not taking any hypertension medication at the time of his arrest. So it was by his choice or by his doctor's decision before he was arrested. If his blood pressure was normal at the prison, why would they give him high blood pressure medication?