Posted on 08/26/2002 9:57:23 AM PDT by mercy
Giving priority to what is most important, I have decided to swallow my pride. I had a dustup with a moderator. I lost. Though I think the moderators need a tuneup they ain't so bad really. I depend on them to keep this site from becomming a free for all whacko hate site. I used to push the abuse button quite frequently on my fave undesirables ... anti-semite, haters. I notice they're a bit thin around here lately.
It is most important that Free Republic live and thrive. It is less important that I get things my way around here. Though I do not agree completely with the proposition that it is Jim's site and he can do with it what he damn will pleases ... It's as much our site, collectively, as it is his now. Perhaps Jim does ride herd a bit too hard on this creation he gave birth to. Fact is I don't know. I simply don't have enough information.
But it is a given that FR is the best there is at what it does. If it's only my morning paper and a place to exercise my verbal skills ... it's worth supporting. Now is the time for all level headed thinking FReepers to come to the aid of our wounded friend ... Free Republic.
DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet, I'm sorry about Deputy Herzog, but it sounds as if you had your way maybe the St. Louis County police should have shot our 22 year-old mentally ill son, too.
On Christmas day last year I made the terrible mistake of calling 911 in order to get some help in getting our son to a physciatric facility. He has a neurochemical problem in his brain and on some days his medications don't seem to do very much good. He was in desperate need of immediate medical care, and I felt I needed some help to get him safely to the hospital. But I would have been better off calling Two Men and a Truck.
Our son was screaming and carrying on like a nut inside and outside the house. His brain had basically gone haywire. He picked up an aluminum door stop and was swinging it around on our front lawn. I went out to make sure he didn't hurt himself.
A female police officer eventually arrived and saw the aluminum thing in our son's hand, which was by his side, and started reaching for her belt to pull out something. She was about 25 feet away from him and I was about 5 feet away from him. I didn't know if she was pulling out a gun or pepper spray, but I didn't wait to find out. I knew that they had shot to death a young man in a similar circumstance a few months earlier, so I immediatiately got our son around the waist, and as gently as I could, tackled him on our front lawn. I did this solely and completely by myself before the police officer ever approached, so that he could not even be perceived to be a threat to her. I didn't want him to be able to run away because I was afraid they would shoot him to death, and I stayed on top of him and tried to protect him by covering his body with mine. During the entire incident he did not initiate any physical action that caused any physical injury to anyone.
To make a long story even longer, the police officer ran over into our yard, and without saying anything got down next to me, got our son in a headlock and maced him. Of course our son began writhing around from the affects of the pepper spray and then she started screaming commands at him (or me?) that even I was unable to decipher.
The moron cop pressed a panic button and soon there were dozens of police present. I realized later that anytime that many police officers are standing around they are either going to have a donut or arrest somebody.
The incident on the ground lasted about 3 minutes, but the nightmare that the police caused us following was far worse than anything our mentally disturbed son ever did. Instead of taking him to the hospital for treatment, they shopped around for a doctor who would find him fit for jail, where they eventually took him. They filed 2 misdemeanors charges, but after my wife filed a complaint about the police conduct, they changed it to 3 FELONIES; assulting ME, assualting the police officer, and resisting arrest. If I told you the outrageous lies the police told to justify themselves, you wouldn't believe me. If I told you the unbelievable things the police just made up out of thin air just to cover their *ss, you would think I was the one lying.
If I showed you the police report you would see that they knew that we from the outset were trying to get our son to the hospital for psychiatric treatment. They just didn't give a damm, though. They just wanted to cover their *ss over the use of the pepper spray. It was their way of saying, "Merry Christmas".
I was shocked and stunned by the illumination on that Christmas day that police will and do lie with complete impunity.
I will never trust them again, and I will never ever call 911 for any purpose whatsover. I'll deal with my emergencies myself.
That's just my two cents worth.
Cordially,
In response, The Property Rights Action Committee of which I'm a board member contacted the Paragon foundation, who had saved the day for the people up in Jarbridge and got the water flowing again for the Klamath Falls farmers. They're bringing 20,000 people in several convoys right to my neighborhood for the largest property rights protest ever.
We had been negotiating for Collier County Fairgrounds (which is 1/2 a block from my house) as a venue, until our rat-bastard local popwers pulled this.
I could write you a book friend on how the greens are on a mission to destroy this country using our own tax money and worse, our own property against us.
Bottom line is (without writing you a novel) they pick a rural area, create a crisis and go about the business of ruining the community and driving down land values so they can swoop in and take control. They used owls to ruin loggers, they used salmon to ruin dam communities, they used a sucker fish to starve farmers, they're using a sparrow in my area etc etc. It's a patterned SOP that they have used over and over, with much success.
In addition to using the endangered animal dejour to ruin communities, they also use fire and flood to accomplish their goals. Grampa Dave can tell you much about that aspect as well.
I'm just getting started. If you need more info or want to get involved to any degree (anything from merely bumping posts to meeting me here in Oct) I'd be more than happy to provide more info. If you like I can add you to my property rights ping list.
Hey Gramps, why don't you tell Texasforever what's going on in your neck of the woods. He asked me for more info on what's happening with the druid wars.
The last eight months have been like something out of a Kafka story, but our son's situation will be resolved on 9/3 with a plea bargin on one misdemeanor count of resisting arrest, and some counseling, which beats going through a jury trial on three felony counts (5-15 years each) bogus as they all are. But the only reason we got this plea bargin with the prosecutors is because of the compassionate intervention of a very well known retired attorney of great stature (a righteous Democrat, if you can believe it) who made one inquiring phone call to one of the prosecutors he knows.
I wonder what happens to people who don't have someone like that to turn to for help. We are grateful that in spite of the police and some of the prosecutors, this situation will be resolved with just about the least amount of harm that could be expected. Thanks again for your kind words.
Cordially,
You mean Harry Browne, Demidog and Tpaine are not going to keep the JBT from stepping on my dog?
LOL!
Do you also think that police should get special treatment when they shoot unarmed people? You see, if I were to shoot a naked unarmed man, I would go to prison for life.
I have a close friend who's a cop, and I believe that the vast majority of officers perform their jobs very well - and that they deserve the respect of us all. I don't care to see them maligned. The Seattle area has had its share of troubles with protesters and downtown parties getting out of hand, and I will say that I would rather see the police err on the side of aggressiveness (WTO) than not (Mardi Gras, where Kris Kime was beaten to death - coming to the defense of a woman - as police were told not to move in). When they hang back too much, bad things happen.
You probably don't even see the incongruence here, do you? You are all over me for questioning the actions of the police, and telling me that I'm a cop hater because I think they reacted poorly in a situation. And yet, here you are doing the exact same thing.
The funny thing is, I agree with you -- in part. In both Seattle riots, the police refused to act when there were clear and isolated offenders to be arrested. They sat back and watched until the provocateurs were able to whip it into something bigger. Then the police reacted and many innocent people were harmed as collateral damage by both sides. It's not that the police need to be more aggressive at smashing crowds or shooting people. It's that they need to follow the law and be held accountable -- seriously accountable -- when they do wrong.
Well, the most widely publicized would be the one where the FBI agent shot the kid in the face.
I think in the context of the job, a police officer needs to be able to function without unnecessary, unreasonable fears. If he has an excellent reason to shoot, then I have no problem with him shooting. Herzog had a very good reason to shoot, and unfortunately, he chose not to. It has been speculated upon that he may have had concerns about society's anti-cop whiners. You can bet his wife and two girls wish he'd used his gun, in spite of the inevitable complaints.
I don't know what the laws in your state are, but I would be surprised if you were not allowed to practice self-defense against someone threatening your life.
You probably don't even see the incongruence here, do you? You are all over me for questioning the actions of the police, and telling me that I'm a cop hater because I think they reacted poorly in a situation. And yet, here you are doing the exact same thing.
No I don't, no I'm not, no I didn't, and no I'm not.
The funny thing is, I agree with you -- in part. In both Seattle riots, the police refused to act when there were clear and isolated offenders to be arrested. They sat back and watched until the provocateurs were able to whip it into something bigger.
They were commanded not to by a wuss. He blew it, probably worried about public pressure and criticism. Now where would he get the idea that people might be critical? Hmmm. Gee. I don't know.
Until you tell me you have served on a police force, I'm going to take your dissection of what they do and how they do it for precisely what it is worth, by the way.
Then the police reacted and many innocent people were harmed as collateral damage by both sides.
You'll have to tell me specifically what you mean by "innocent" (anarchists bent on causing trouble and destroying property?) and "harmed" (yelled at? pepper sprayed? shoved?). Then you're going to have to prove the cops were out of line, and acted unprovoked by these so-called "innocents". Good luck.
It's not that the police need to be more aggressive at smashing crowds or shooting people. It's that they need to follow the law and be held accountable -- seriously accountable -- when they do wrong.
I think you need to take into consideration the context of the job. It's not conducted in a laboratory, after all. It just ain't.
Okay; I have no memory of that, but I thought of another case (Diallo). In that instance, I believe the police were justified, even though the man was totally innocent.
Think about it. How many times per day do you suppose someone is approached by a cop? Easily thousands. How many times per day do completely innocent, unarmed people get shot and killed by officers?
This hysterical idea that it's some sort of epidemic and that rogue cops are everywhere is really weird, in my opinion.
The Herzog case was indeed a sad affair, but it in no way justifies authorizing the police to shoot unarmed people just because the might become a threat in the future, or because the officer is nervous. Perhaps, rather than lobbying for police powers to execute on a whim, you might want to purchase some better equipment for your local officers. There are holsters available from Uncle Mikes that would have prevented the perp from wresting control of his firearm.
Of course we can practice self defense in Oregon. However, there isn't a state in the union that would avoid prosecuting a private citizen for busting a cap in the arse of a naked unarmed man, unless that man was in your bedroom in the middle of the night holding you down by your throat. In the street, you would be expected to maintain separation and maintain control of your firearm.
I haven't served on a police force, but I carry a firearm every day. That means I must take responsibility for the choices I make. If someone gains control of my firearm and uses it to harm someone, I'm going to be held accountable, too. If I shoot an unarmed person, I'm going to be brought before a grand jury charged with murder, and they will indict. You can write my opinion off if you like. It matters not one bit to me whether I have the validation of an overly emotional young woman. I only hope that someday you mature and start thinking on the level of reason and principle. Or, you can marry and become a soccer mom. Like I said, it really is no skin off my nose.
It figures that you would take the side of Diallo's executioners. What's another black, or retard, or leftist to you anyway. Kill'em all and let God sort'em out. Cripes your something else...
Now police in fear for their lives are "executioners". Yeah, I guess you are a cop hater after all. As for the rest of your nasty reply, it is so foul and disgusting it isn't worthy of a response.
Haven't read your long one yet. Don't think I will. Not after that little hate-filled display.
P.S. Kinda like the jury who heard all the evidence. Imagine that.
In other words you've run short of your little bromides and talking points and want to cut and run rather than admitting that you have a hell of a lot of growing up to do.
Yeah, and both OJ and Bill Clinton are innocent. Uh-huh.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.