Judge Mudd Refuses Sequester Plea: Westerfield Jury Verdict In Sep? (Aug. 16th Verdict Watch)

Union Trib ^ | August 15, 2002 | Jeff Dillion/Steve Perez

[wonders]

Yes, I had thought about that even fairly early on... I had the misfortune to witness some quite far-gone bodies bagged at the scene. Stuff does tend to fall off, and has to be scooped up and into the bag. :(

[domestice]

Phew! Just me..must be PMS! :-)
Considering how the pros. had the supposed dog expert, that never really did get a scent & may have been led to DW's MH by the 'trainer'...the thought crossed my mind that maybe Feldman would have pointed out that the pros. dogs found nothing...(there could be a few jurors that are slow to get things sometimes, like yours truly!)

[Jaded]

They did. They took one of his shoes.

[Freedom2specul8]

"AGAIN, IN MY EXPERIENCE WITH ANIMALS FEEDING, USUALLY THEY WILL COME IN AND FEED RATHER EARLY ON THE FRESHER TISSUES, NOT -- I DON'T THINK THAT THE ANIMALS, THE CARNIVORES, WOULD WAIT UNTIL THAT TISSUE IS TOO BADLY MUMMIFIED BECAUSE IT'S HARD TO CHEW, HARD TO TEAR OFF"

HI guys...Ok, I appreciate that wonders cuz it really is harder to wade through then the rest of the testimony.

Capps, wrt:only the face and hands being mummified..even the ME examiner agreed that ALL the skin "that remained" was mummified..(see my earlier excerpts from ME's testimony. He said the body could have been there up to 3 1/2 weeks.. The anthropologist who studies mummification said 4-6 weeks: See that excerpt here..and that the exact date isn't an exact science.

The body was found on the 27th
MEDICAL EXAMINER
3 1/2 weeks = 21 + 3.5 days = 24.5 days

ANTHROPOLOGIST
4 - 6 weeks = 28 - 42 days

_____

The people who studied bodies have more to say than bugs..before you say that's a week argument...the testimony shows the following:

Goff, the professor from HA said that bugologists are unable to give exact dates.
The defense witness from missouri has never seen a body in the condition danielle's was in...so how can he tell.. (see transcripts)
I dont' remember how many times haskill said he has spent on mummified remains.

I think that why it's so hard to understand is the mummification factor---none of the expert witnesses with the exception of the anthropologist have spent that much time on mummifed bodies in that condition. Unless someone can show different.

[wonders]

To do so would be a very awful thing indeed! which makes me doubt that it happened

Agreed. Most unpleasant. Which is why I've always thought it unlikely. Although I've read of cases where the perp did it. (Can't imagine it, but lots of things I can't imagine.)

[Freedom2specul8]

YAWN..it's getting late--should have read

The people who studied bodies have more to say than those who studied bugs..before you say that's a weak argument...

[pinz-n-needlez]

you mean where those two girls were abducted and killed? The ones that were found naked in watery ditches, except for a sock on their left foot?

[dread78645]

But what about the testimony that stated, dehydration etc slows down the decaying process?

The body wasn't desiccated, Kimmy. They recovered some 180ml of fluid from the lung cavity IIRC. Unless they stuck her body in a drying oven and weighed her before and after, there is no telling how much moisture was still available.

Hands, foot, ears. Low fat/low water mass. those will mummify quickly.
The odd thing is no (or very few) insects in the braincase, It should have been infested with maggots but it wasn't.

And nobody has testified that the brain was mummified or dryed-out.

[clearvision]

If anyone has a way to clip an image out of adobe please go here to the very bottom and clip and post the two drycleaner receipts:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/danielle/transcripts/westerfield_003.pdf
Thanks

[Freedom2specul8]

"I have to give you one on that, Kimmie. I, too, have wondered why there were no children called to testify about playing in the MH. In fact, I was very disappointed that Feldman failed to address many of the issues that FReepers have been discussing. But, like I said before, his hands were tied almost the whole trial by that biased Muddy Duddy.--Judy "

Honestly, as much as feldman tried to get us to believe that she was in the MH for innocent reasons..he simply couldn't do it. He insinuated it...by showing it was left unlocked..but that's not enough IMHO. Can't wait to hear what the jury has to say about it!

[wonders]

MEDICAL EXAMINER 3 1/2 weeks = 21 + 3.5 days = 24.5 days

Actually, the ME said 6 weeks to ten days.

Goff, the professor from HA said that bugologists are unable to give exact dates

Not one of the forensic experts gave an exact date. All have overlapping estimates of PMI, however, except for the ding-dong "mummyologist." There is concordance among the four bug guys and the ME.

The mummy guy had Danielle selling cookies to DW as a, well, a mummy!

[John Jamieson]

SD TV internet article.

No results equals NO testimony.....

.....don't want to bother the jury with exculpatory evidence, you know.

[Freedom2specul8]

"This fellow also said the mummification would be well under progress within 24 hours. Problem is that the blowflys will be laying eggs with in the first 20 minutes to an hour."

Yes he did...That's assuming she was thrown there within the first 24 hrs.. I know no one can have all the answers on either side..and that's what makes it so difficult.

I have kept in the back of my mind that people can be convicted without a body. That's why it's not so hard to believe in some of the evidence. I recall the testimony (sorry I've forgotten which witness) who was asked if she could have started to dehydrate in a bag in a storage compartment..I don't know if thejudge allowed the answer, but I remember the witness said "yes".

[the-gooroo]

Hi BARLF. Thanks so much. I can't believe this wasn't pounded on by Feldman. DW was definitely their main suspect by then. There's no way that dog would not have picked up his scent on Tuesday if he had abducted her. Weeks after Chandra Levy went missing, dogs picked up her scent out on the sidewalk in front of her apartment.

[Jaded]

I don't think she was at Dehesa until 2/14-2/18. I think she was somewhere else before that but not in the elements. A cabin maybe, a deserted pump house. Any number of places really.

[wonders]

The odd thing is no (or very few) insects in the braincase, It should have been infested with maggots but it wasn't.

Based on the testimony of Faulkner and Haskell, what I think probably happened: The first wave of flies on day one laid eggs in the natural openings of the head (ears, nose, mouth) and even more so, in the urogenital region. As the ears and facial areas dried out on days two, three and four, the successive waves in the of flies primarily laid eggs in the urogenital area and in openings created by the coyotes. Therefore, at the autopsy, there was a "maggot mass" in the abdominal area, but not in the head. The maggots in the head area (too few in number to form a "mass") then migrated to the warmth of the maggot mass (which generates its own heat) in abdominal area when the body was placed in the morgue.

I like Haskell's explanation -- makes lots of sense:

A THE TESTIMONY OF ONE OF THE INVESTIGATORS SHOWED THAT THERE WERE SOME MAGGOTS IN THE HEAD AREA. BUT WHEN DAVID FAULKNER WENT TO MAKE THE COLLECTION AT THE AUTOPSY, HE FOUND THAT THERE WERE NO MAGGOTS IN THE HEAD AREA AND ONLY A CONSIDERABLE MAGGOT MASS IN THE ABDOMINAL AREA, PELVIC AREA OF THE REMAINS. MY CONCLUSION ON THAT WAS THE FACT THAT THERE WERE -- THE FLIES MOST LIKELY DID TRY TO LAY THEIR EGGS. MOTHER FLY TRIED TO LAY SOME EGGS IN THE HEAD AREA. AND A FEW OF THEM PROBABLY MADE IT. BUT WHEN THE BODY WENT INTO THE MORGUE AND COOLED DOWN, THE FEW MAGGOTS THAT WERE UP IN THE HEAD AREA DIDN'T HAVE THE MAGGOT MASS AGGREGATION TO GENERATE THIS HEAT THAT IS PRESENT. AND SO THEY PROBABLY WENT TO -- I THINK IT'S POSSIBLE THAT THEY TRIED TO SEEK WHERE THIS HEAT WAS PRESENT IN THIS PELVIC AREA WHERE THE MAGGOT MASS WAS PRESENT AND PROBABLY JOINED THEIR FELLOW MAGGOTS DOWN THERE.

[Freedom2specul8]

LOL!

I got the ME's testimony from preliminary transcripts. Did he change it for the hearing? It says up to 3 1/2 weeks. Click the link to see for yourself.

[alexandria]

that were going to testilie...Was that a typo?

Testilie: Definition; A curious but well known (although not acknowleged) condition where an otherwise honest LE officer will, while on the stand, repeatedly recall previous events much differantly than the way things actually happened.

[dread78645]

because she and DW were having a daytime secret affair? ...

... and she surely would not confess to such a thing and ruin her reputation.

B | N > K

( Beer Beverage, Nose, Keyboard)

[CAPPSMADNESS]

I did read it kim, not sure what you are trying to do here, and not going to take the bait either. The "mummy doctor" stated that all skin that remained was mummified, then that means that what was mummified were the extremeties and parts of the face - if rest was not mummified, then it in fact DECAYED and therefor could not have been mummified. I never discounted anything he said, I tend to look at all of the evidence, not just what I want to gleen for my personal purposes.If wonder and I are bothering you by our polite discussion, then please skip our posts.