The New Hobbit Hole

[HairOfTheDog]

Welcome to The New Hobbit Hole
Concerning Hobbits
The New Hobbit Chronicles

This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.

In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:

Our discussion has been light:

It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog

However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB

Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr

Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog

Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB

Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed

To the very philosophical:

…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla

To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…

…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB

Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog

…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1

Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed

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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom

…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253

Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed

So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.

[Corin Stormhands]

I kind of want to go and see that movie.

Me too, sorta. But I was glad to let him go with someone else. I can wait for the DVD.

[Sam Cree]

I don't like airplanes that much, so a rocket seems kind of out of the question. If space ships ever become everyday reliable it'd be nice to see what you describe. I have too much love for too much and too many here on earth to want to leave permanently, though.

I'll check out that series next time at Blockbuster.

This is fun talking about books and SF.

[Corin Stormhands]

The dwarf looks around (o)(o).

Sees no one hiding, and settles in for the night.

(but he keeps one eye open) (o) -

[Bear_in_RoseBear]

Actually, I agree with you... I don't like flying in airplanes, and I wouldn't want to leave Earth permanently. But I'd put up with a rocket flight for the chance to see a view like this:
Out ride the sons of Terra,
Far drives the thundering jet,
Up leaps a race of Earthmen,
Out, far, and onward yet ---

We pray for one last landing
On the globe that gave us birth;
Let us rest our eyes on the friendly skies
And the cool, green hills of Earth.

--Robert Heinlein, "The Green Hills of Earth"

I'm having fun discussing this too! But it's bedtime for me, so this will do for a nightlight I think.

[Sam Cree]

"Yes, but we know what happened there..."

Yeah, you guys delved too deep and awakened something or other :-O

Good night Corin, All

[Sam Cree]

Lovely picture and poem. Dreams and aspirations are a wonderful thing...take care, then

[JenB]

Thanks for that post, Bear. Heinlein's Green Hills of Earth is a right teary-eyed poem for me. I love it.

What happened? I'm off slaving away for a day and FR changes! Is this what our Freepathon money got? I don't know if I like it yet.

I haven't been ignoring you guys, I've been working both jobs all day... glad someone answered the Dwarf question. There was another query to me, as to whether I liked Terry Brooks or Stephen Donaldson; Brooks I find really derivative but will read, Donaldson I hate with a passion. Loathe and despise, beyond any writer except perhaps Robert Jordan. If the man was dead I would go and dance on his grave.

[JenB]

Why didn't my post show up in the My Posts section? I need a placemarker.

[Overtaxed]

Good Morning hobbitses, dwarveses, and Men of Gondor...Oh yeah, and Elvses too.

[Overtaxed]

Hobbitses....breakfast!

Come and get it!

[JenB]

Morning! Hello and goodbye, for now, actually, I'm late for job number one. See you around! Is it Friday yet?

[Corin Stormhands]

Morning. Thanks for breakfast.

[Corin Stormhands]

What happened? I'm off slaving away for a day and FR changes!

Seems a bit cumbersome to me. I didn't know what you were talking about until I went to post.

[ksen]

We haven't had a good elf-bashing in a while. Here is a summary of some of my reading last night which might serve as a nice starting point.

When the elves first appeared on the earth the Valar led most of them to Valinor (I believe this is the place they go when they sail off to the west). In Valinor were two trees. These trees provided the light for that land.

An elf named Feanor came along and decided to make three jewels. In these jewels he put some of the light from the two trees, the jewels were called the Silmarils.

To make a long story short, Melkor(Morgoth) had been freed from his captivity, deceived some of the elves into thinking that the Valar were jealous of them, and escaped into the south where he convinced Ungoliant, the mother of Shelob, to come with him back to Valinor where she could feed on the light of the two trees. Melkor and Ungoliant snuck into Valinor and Ungoliant devoured the light from the two trees, killing them. Melkor stole the Silmarils and he and Ungoliant escaped into the north lands of Middle-Earth.

Now Feanor was devestated by the loss of his Silmarils. He blamed the Valar, remember his mind had been poisoned by Melkor. Feanor rallied a majority of the Noldor(elves) to his side and they left to go back to Middle-Earth, reclaim the land they had left, and win back the Silmarils from Melkor. On the trip back to Middle-Earth Feanor and his army, which was divided into two different bands, came to the edge of Valinor and could not pass over the sea back to Middle-Earth.

They visited their kin, the Teleri, who dwelt on the coast and had beautiful white ships. The Teleri refused to help them rebel against the Valar so Feanor and his army attacked the Teleri, killing many. Feanor loaded his host into the ships and set sail for M/E.

They sailed north where the sea was narrower. They eventually came to a strip of land. They anchored the boats there to decide what to do next. Feanor had two options: 1) Walk over land to M/E through the frozen northlands or 2) Sail the ships to a spot of M/E further south. There were not enough ships to carry all of Feanor's host at once back to M/E. This was because Ulmo, the Valar who had the charge of the oceans, sent storms and waves to hinder the Noldor because of their attack on the Teleri.

Feanor chose a third option. He chose to sneak off in the ships with those who were loyal to him, leaving everyone else stranded on that northern strip of land. When Feanor and his band arrived in M/E his son asked who would Feanor send back with the ships to retrieve their compatriots. Feanor said no one would go and he burned the ships.

Needless to say the stranded elves saw the glow of the burning ships and knew what had happened. So they determined to make it overland to M/E. They did so, losing some of their people in the process.

I like how Tolkien worded how the abandoned elves felt as they returned to M/E, "Small love for Feanor or his sons had those that marched at last behind him, and blew their trumpets in Middle-earth at the first rising of the moon."

So you see those elves were backstabbers from the start. And you know, Galadriel was part of that bunch with that had to journey through the northern wastes.

[ksen]

Have you noticed how the management waits until right after a fund-raiser to make changes to the system? That happened right after the last fund-raiser as well. I am sensing a pattern here.

Do you know if the proposed changes were announced before hand? Or even if they were announced afterwards?

[Overtaxed]

So you see those elves were backstabbers from the start.

"Never trust an Elf!"

Welcome fellow Elf-basher. Pretty sneaky waiting for the main Elf-defender to go to work and the second string Elf-defender to be away on an 11-hour job. Time to get in some good Elf-bashing!

[Corin Stormhands]

Have you noticed how the management waits until right after a fund-raiser to make changes to the system? That happened right after the last fund-raiser as well. I am sensing a pattern here.

I've noticed and I don't like it. I'm very tempted to withdraw my monthly contribution. I threatened to do that when they created the "forums."

Apparently the site established to "free" us from big government is becoming big government.

I've left the crusades. I don't want to leave you guys, but I may have to go back to just getting my news from Drudge and move on with my life.

[ksen]

Welcome fellow Elf-basher. Pretty sneaky waiting for the main Elf-defender to go to work and the second string Elf-defender to be away on an 11-hour job. Time to get in some good Elf-bashing!

Heh heh, Jen should be in for quite a shock when she gets to check back in here. ;^)

I haven't seen HOTD check in this morning yet, I wonder if she had time to this morning, what with having to make that LOOONG drive today.

You know, it is commonly understood that orcs are really elves. Some say that the elves were imprisoned and tortured until they were like that, but I suspect that Melkor just allowed their true natures to be revealed.

[ksen]

You know if someone complains about how things are going or done here, they get treated with comments like "It's JR's living room, if you don't like it leave." Well I wonder, is it JR's living room anymore? The funding to keep the place going comes from FReepers now. So I don't think that rebuttal is accurate anymore.

If I get banned for the above, I will come back and let you all know. ;^)

[Overtaxed]

I suspect that Melkor just allowed their true natures to be revealed.

Ooooo...even I haven't made a blow that low! :)

I just have a problem with snooty Movie Elves and Movie Elrond in particular. After all the messing around with the Dark Side the Elves did in that Silmaril business, I don't want to hear any of Movie-Elrond's mouth on how weak Men are!

I kind of like the new posting format. It shows you the message you're responding to while you're in the midst of composing.