Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.
In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:
Our discussion has been light:
It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog
However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB
Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr
Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog
Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB
Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed
To the very philosophical:
…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla
To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…
…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB
Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog
…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1
Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed
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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom
…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253
Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed
So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.
what would happen if someone tried that Schroedinger experiment?
Heinlein featured Schoedinger's cat in The Cat Who Walked Through Walls.
The TV series Babylon 5 got it right. On the show, "spacing" is an accepted form of capital punishment for some crimes, and while it never happens on the show, several times characters describe how it is neither a slow nor a pleasant way to die.
The movie got worse from there...
I'm glad I didn't see it.
But I thought they were very well written.
Exactly right... and I agree with you, the real SF people get these concepts right.
I'm going to have to log off for the night, but in honor of tonight's discussion let me post this "night-light" snapped by the Hubble Space Telescope...
The Cold Equations, by Tom Godwin, is one of the best stories about this. A real classic. 'I didn't do anything to die for - I didn't do anything'.
Okay, lets try this: It's party time!! Everybody get ready for the big party for the 10,000th post for the Hobbit Hole. First we will have the athletic events. The warm-up event is page-sneaking. OK everybody, line up and head for the '00' post. On your marks, get set, sneak!! (Not yet though, still too far).
Is there a new thread that ya'll are posting on these days?
"There is good new stuff, really. It depends what you want"
I still like sci fi and fantasy, but look for good writing, mainly. It can be hard to find.
One that made an impression on me was (JenB's) Doomsday Book. I discovered it because it was mentioned on an FR thread, but no longer remember who made the recommendation.
Morning OT.
I watched FoTR last night and I just wanted to share one scene that always makes me chuckle. Gandalf has returned from his information seeking quest, he has thrown the ring in Frodo's fireplace, and they now know that Frodo's ring is the One Ring.
After Frodo decides to take the ring away from Hobbiton he busily starts to pack. There is one scene in this episode where Gandalf is telling Frodo where to go. While Gandalf is giving Frodo instructions he is helping Frodo to pack.
The scene I am thinking about has Gandalf carefully folding a shirt for Frodo. Frodo grabs it out of Gandalf's hands, shakes it out and stuffs it in his pack. For some reason that always brings a smile to my face. Heh heh.
Hehehe. Either Gandalf can't fold shirts or Frodo likes that wrinkled bachelor's look!
I like reading about space and (unlike J.R.R.T.) love machinery and contraptions, though I'm not so sure about that space shuttle, which seems like maybe too much of a hybrid.
But I'm not too sure I want to be in space, I like certain parts of good old U.S.A. an awful lot + I seem to be getting pretty set in my ways with age...
I'm not all that thrilled about doing space travel either. There's something about the thought of sitting on top of high explosives that's unsettling. And I'd probably get space sick too! (Barfing in 1G is bad enough. I'd hate to think what it would be like in 0G!)
Will look for that scene next time I see the movie.
Yes, me too, I guess that goes for all fiction. I'm really an avid reader, but I often find it difficult to find stuff that's any good. I suppose there's plenty of it out there, it's just hidden in the midst of so much stuff that's no good.
I'm going over to the library and try to find some worthwhile art history books, maybe I can figure out some of what the masters were doing. Not the same as good escapist fiction, though.
There was a thread posted on modern art last night that I want to find and read.
Going to start a new thread for the Green Dragon when we start reading TTT, which should be soon... I have just been busy, and no one else has clammered for it yet.
The "hobbit hole" topic is probably just pushing us off because there are new threads.
Hullo all! - Good Morning!
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