The New Hobbit Hole

[HairOfTheDog]

Welcome to The New Hobbit Hole
Concerning Hobbits
The New Hobbit Chronicles

This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.

In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:

Our discussion has been light:

It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog

However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB

Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr

Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog

Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB

Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed

To the very philosophical:

…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla

To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…

…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB

Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog

…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1

Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed

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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom

…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253

Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed

So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.

[Corin Stormhands]

Leaving the dwarf to be accused of sneaking, when I know you're out there...

[JenB]

Whoo-hoo! Three times in a row!

[Corin Stormhands]

You were waiting to pounce with your double posts. I was trying for a fair fight.

No flitty elf dance for you!

[JenB]

That wasn't double posting! That was shotgun posting. There's a difference; double posting looks like an accident. What I was doing was definitely deliberate.

[Corin Stormhands]

Well okay, but you smoked out four posts in the time I got through one!!

Well, there's always 8600...

[JenB]

So... what you're saying is, my cable modem, Pentium 4 processor, IE 6 browser, gave me an unfair advantage? Cry me a river, liberal!

[Bear_in_RoseBear]

Corin Stormhands, Sr. (my dad) was in The Big Lift (1951) with Montgomery Clift...

Now that is very cool!

[2Jedismom]

Good evening! Boy I went on what could almost be considered a rant, didn't I? LOL I almost flapped! LOL

I talked hubby into taking us to Krispy Kreme and you would not believe it! The crowd is huge! It opens at 5:30am and there is already a huge line at the drive-thru and people in tents and all the news stations are there. The Red Cross (gag me) is there with a blood mobile and people are standing in the Lowe's parking lot taking pictures!! People were in groups playing guitars and I was dying to jump out and join them and play my whistle. I keep forgeting I'm just a slightly pudgy housewife. In my 20s, I would have been right there, I'm telling you!

I promised the boys that I would pack them a lunch and we'd go tomorrow after VBS.

[Penny1]

I think from my perspective, it all comes down to whether or not one agrees with the philosophy of "public school." Having grown up in a great one, I personally appreciate my experiences there. However, the philosophy itself that the government be responsible for educating the children is a bit troubling to me. I get what you're saying about it depending on the community because the community controls the schools. But should schooling be a political issue? Or should a community organize its own schooling independent of public funds and the resulting public regulations? I think this is much of what happens once a family begins homeschooling--they form a loose community with other homeschoolers and have co-ops for certain classes. In this way, the kids get much of the good that would come from being in a "school" yet without the interference of the government and with direct, hands-on decision-making about who will teach their children.

Forgive me for rambling here, but I'm kind of thinking out loud... ;)

I think the other factor is that homeschoolers are very much involved in a battle to preserve their rights to educate their own children as they see fit. The libs would dearly love to find a way to limit or take away that right--and it wouldn't take much, just some expanded regulations, for the government to worm its way into the home this way.

Well, that's the only semi-coherent thoughts I can come up with, thanks for letting me ramble on a subject with which I have had very little direct involvement. ;)

[Bear_in_RoseBear]

I'm not sending my kids to public school because I believe the entire system is flawed from the very conception

2JM, you've articulated very well one of the reasons I have for wanting to homeschool my eventual children. My wife and I have other reasons as well, the biggest one being that we both believe schools today are not geared towards producing the best education possible for individual children. We believe that if a child is a little faster or slower than the "mainstream" (however the latest trend in child psychology defines "mainstream"), then they are pushed aside; discouraged if they are bright, ignored if they are slow. Any child that causes the teacher "trouble" (that is, more work) gets this reaction; and since every child will find some subject easier or harder to grasp, this is going to happen to every child.

Every honest educator will agree that one-on-one is the best way to teach a child. The instructor knows immediately which subjects are giving the child difficulty, and which therefore need reinforcement. Since the pace can be adapted to the individual child, you can be sure that your child is going to get the best education possible for him or her. As an added bonus, you become deeply involved in your child's life; the more parents are involved with their children, the less likely drinking, drug abuse, and anti-social Columbine-type behavior become. All pluses, I'd say.

Those are some of the reasons why we're planning to home-school.

[HairOfTheDog]

I am completely comfortable with the institution of public schooling... and I do see benefits to society in it. From putting everyone together, we create, or have the opportunity to create Americans, rather than individual groups who stick with and listen only to their own.

I will think some more on it, I am sure. Thanks everybody for your feedback on it. It will all go into the mix that ends up being the view I can live with.

[Penny1]

You raise a very good point about the emphasis on the "individual" as being a bit troubling--America has lost much of its sense of community, and while individualism is a big part of our national identity, it's not always preferable...

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

The High School Penny and I went to was a good school then, so I think it probably still is now.

My high school, which was located in the extreme northern NYC suburbs (60 miles to Times Square), was excellent then, I do not think it is so good now. I got the chance to study Latin, do science projects, take 2 1/2 years of Algebra, and go to 'gifted' student seminars. (Hey, I got to read Thucydides 'The Melian Dialogue' from The Peloppenesian War, taught me all I ever needed to know about Realpolitik). The languages were disappearing when my brother attended, 4 years later. I believe that in many states, and most center cities, sending your kids to public schools, except for extremely poor working parents, should be treated as child abuse.

[JenB]

I guess I just have so many bad connotations - kids in classes who cannot read, who cannot place the Revolution in the right half-century, and who have trouble with algebra - college students, remember - not to mention the people I know who just aren't getting educated....well, I know that any kids I have won't be attending a public school, no matter what sacrifices I may have to make.

Anyway, talk about it any time you like. We'll convert you yet!

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

This one - it's rather disturbing, so beware.

IMO just another one of the lovely things for which we can thank X-42. Obviously he didn't invent it, but he justified it for many.

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

From putting everyone together, we create, or have the opportunity to create Americans, rather than individual groups who stick with and listen only to their own.

This is the old Noah Webster, Horace Mann idea of public schooling. In many places in the country today, they view their duty as creating 'un-Americans', people who despise American culture and American political and economic principles.

[Corin Stormhands]

So... what you're saying is, my cable modem, Pentium 4 processor, IE 6 browser, gave me an unfair advantage?

That's exactly what I'm saying. I demand dwarf reparations!

Actually, what I was saying that I took too long to write my response...

[Corin Stormhands]

Now that is very cool!

My brother has The Big Lift on video. You can't see my dad, but he's with the band.

We lost him in 1978, so we think it's pretty cool too.

[HairOfTheDog]

I believe that in many states, and most center cities, sending your kids to public schools, except for extremely poor working parents, should be treated as child abuse

Way too broad a brush LCS! All of America is not a mess.

[HairOfTheDog]

So we fix it. By bugging out we don't fix it, IMHO.