The New Hobbit Hole

[HairOfTheDog]

Welcome to The New Hobbit Hole
Concerning Hobbits
The New Hobbit Chronicles

This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.

In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:

Our discussion has been light:

It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog

However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB

Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr

Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog

Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB

Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed

To the very philosophical:

…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla

To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…

…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB

Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog

…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1

Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed

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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom

…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253

Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed

So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.

[HairOfTheDog]

Let's hunt some orc!

[MozartLover]

OOOOHHHHHHHHHH...........and a very nice one it is, too!

Thank you.:) :) :)

[carton253]

Thank you, Penny

[carton253]

In all the captions, they say the sword Aragorn holding is the sword of Narsil. And this, supposedly, is a picture of him at Helm's Deep I do not know if it is... I read somewhere (I don't remember) that Arwen brings the sword to Aragorn at Helm's Deep. Since I've seen pictures of Arwen at Helm's Deep, I might believe this rumor. Maybe someone has more information than I do.

Here's the picture...

[carton253]

Read something interesting last night in Return of the King that might help our little discussion of yesterday. Legolas was talking to Merry in the House of Healing about Aragorn leading the Dead into battle.

He said.. (I was going to bring the book, but I forgot it... so this is by memory...)

It's a good thing Aragorn never got ahold of the ring. His will is so strong that he could have bent the ring to do his will and become a great and terrible dark lord.

So, it seems the ring is controlled by your will and not your ambition.

Smeagol's will was for fish... so, the ring provided him that.

Then in the next chapter, Gandalf said that destroying the ring was the only way to destroy Sauron. He would not be "destroyed" as in "poof - gone forever", but he could only grovel in shadows and never take power to himself again. The foundation of his fortress was the ring.

In the battle of the palantir, Aragorn was able to convice Sauron that Isildur's heir had the ring. That is why Sauron attacked Gondor.

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

A larger version of this picture was posted at #309 about 5 days ago, but I am sure that the ladies will appreciate the reminder.

[Overtaxed]

That sounds right. Ambition and will go hand in hand as far as I can tell in that you have to have the ambition before the will to achieve kicks in.

Also, in the palantir battle, I recall that Aragorn said he had the right to use it and the strength (barely) to wrest it from Sauron's control.

[carton253]

Academy Award Prediction time... The only thing harder than filling out your NCAA brackets is trying to figure out what the Academy is thinking...

But here goes... (doing only the major awards)

Best Actor
Should win: Russell Crowe
Will win: Either Russell Crowe or Denzel Washington

Best Actress
Should win: Nicole Kidman
Will win: Sissy Spacek

Best Supporting Actress
Should win: Jennifer Connelly
Will win: Jennifer Connelly

Best Supporting Actor
Should win: Ian McKellan
Will win: Either Ben Kingsley or Ian McKellan

Best Animated Film:
Should and will win: Shrek

Music (Score)
Should Win: Lord of the Rings
Will Win: Monsters, Inc. (Randy Newman has been shunned so many times... that they may award him for past work)

Best Song:
Should Win: Pearl Harbor
Will Win: Vanilla Sky (It's Paul McCartney)

Best Adapted Screenplay
Should Win: The Lord of the Rings
Will Win: A Beautful Mind

Director:
Should Win: Peter Jackson
Will Win: Either Ron Howard or Robert Altman

Best Picture
Should Win: Lord of the Rings
Will Win: Either A Beautiful Mind or Moulin Rouge

Well, my brackets are in ruin, so I don't suppose I have done any better here. But, it gives us something to discuss today.

[carton253]

Sorry about that... I love to see the pictures but sometimes they slow down my computer. The one Pennyl just posted I hadn't seen before.

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

The one Pennyl just posted I hadn't seen before.

Me either, I don't know if was from TTT or the ROTK. Penny1?

[HairOfTheDog]

Unfortunately, that is the same sword he had at Amon Hen

This is Narsil, soon to be Anduril... note the difference in the hilt...

Also check out the sword in the Pillars of the Kings shots... the statue on the right shows Narsil - same hilt detail

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

I see, Narsil has a strictly cruciform hilt, his current sword is slightly recurved, right?

[ksen]

Bumping for stumbling across the new hole. Family evening reading now has Gollum leading Frodo and Sam away from the Morannon and in to Ithilien. Gollum's voice has proved to be a challenge. More than anything, the voice that's coming out of me in reading it reminds me of a demented Yoda. See you all later!

Hi WS! ;^)

I am at almost the exact same spot with my kids. We will be reading Book 4 Chapter 4 tonight (the name escapes me but I know Faramir is introduced in this chapter).

I know what you mean about voices. By the end of the last chapter I was wondering why Tolkien had to have Gollum talk so much. ;^) My throat was SORE after that.

ALL:
Here is a link I found where a chapter by chapter discussion took place, Reading Lord of the Rings: The Final Attempt.

-ksen

[carton253]

Thanks for the clarification... I knew someone would know. (Still a good picture of Aragorn, don't you think)

[carton253]

Then why bring Arwen to Helm's Deep if she isn't bring the sword? That's a rhetorical question... If I were making the movie, I wouldn't introduce the sword until I needed the sword for story purposes.

[JenB]

That's a very funny site... I am happy to say the poor girl made it and is now a true LotR geek. She even does an online comic strip about it!

I opened the Dragon up early today because I'm not sure if I'll have another chance until late afternoon. So everybody start thinking about what you want to say...

[HairOfTheDog]

Maybe Arwen comes just to give him a kiss for good luck... I dunno

Hey all : I am out for the day - I see Jen posted the Green Dragon for me already! - Thanks Jen!

[ksen]

Do you believe in a young or old Middle-Earth?

Just kidding. ;^)

-ksen

[carton253]

And just one more question... If Arwen comes to Helms Deep... then how in the world did she know where to find him. It's not like he's leaving forwarding addresses as he was traipsing through the wilderness.

That is a question I had in the Two Towers... when the Rangers and the sons of Elrond showed up in Rohan, how did they know that Aragorn would even be there? Maybe... through Galadriel since she knew the general direction the Fellowship was heading, but when Aragorn left Lorien he hadn't decided whether he would go with Boromir to Minas Tirith or with Frodo to Mordor... But, then, plans went astray when they were attacked and Merry and Pippin were carried off. There is no way that Gandalf rode Shadowfax all the way back to Rivendell and back. It took Boromir 110 days to get from Gondor to Rivendell.

That's a question that just stuck with me... maybe those who have read the books more than me know the answer.

[Overtaxed]

I don't remember the book telling that. My guess is it showed up in the Mirror or by some other "Elf magic."