Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.
In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:
Our discussion has been light:
It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog
However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB
Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr
Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog
Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB
Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed
To the very philosophical:
…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla
To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…
…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB
Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog
…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1
Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed
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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom
…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253
Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed
So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.
Sue and I did a bit of home improvement type work today, finally finishing up the fence repairs. The work went well, was able to reuse just about all the boards from the previous section replacement, ah, recycle and reuse, just sawdust left and the odd rotten piece. The wood pile needs culling though. The pleasant sound of hand saw, can't be beat on cool morning. However we're not total ludites, the cordless driver does make short work of long screws.
Gee, I can't even keep close to keeping up around here. It seems like only a few days ago we were celebrating matching the old Hobbit Hole thread, and now we're up over 6000 already!
Anyway, I found a place to live in Arizona, and have sent my resume off to one job so far. Only 3 weeks of tech support left!! (Unless of course, I end being able to find nothing else in AZ, LOL.)
Well LotR is now at the bargain theater here, so I am going out for a walk then off to the movie! Later.
Well, thanks, I guess. :-) It comes from having just finished reading The Book of Lost Tales. Seeing how the stories of the First Age changed over time from their earliest forms was *very* interesting. The Hobbit was written in the 30s; I suspect that some of Tolkien's concepts hadn't changed as much from their earliest forms of the teens and 20s as they did by the time LOTR was published in the 50s.
Rohirrim or Gondorians would probably see Beorn as something out of a child's tale
Well, The Hobbit *is* a child's tale. As I understand it, Tolkien made it up to tell his children at bedtime, and was eventually convinced to write it down in book form.
The one thing I do agree with about your comment is that the magic in Middle-Earth fades.
That's true, although in the earliest concept the Elves' "fading" meant something very different. And I find it very interesting that when the Hobbits are in Lothlorien, asking the Elves there about "magic", the Elves aren't quite sure what the Hobbits mean by the word. Even Galadriel, when she was showing her mirror to Sam and Frodo, says, "... this is what your folk would call magic, I believe; though I do not understand clearly what they mean ...."
It's things like that that cause me to wonder if Tolkien, over time, changed his own views on what was "magical" in Middle Earth, and therefore the early stories have things like shape-changing galore, while in the later stories "magic" is just a greater understanding of natural processes.
The original versions of the stories did have more of a fairy-tale feel, didn't they? Like Beren being captive in the castle with the giant cat? But you've also got things, like the Fall of Gondolin, that go perfectly with the tone of Silmarillion...
I would agree with that. As I was reading "The Fall of Gondolin" in the Lost Tales I kept thinking that I wished JRRT had been able to fully re-write the story for The Silmarillion. The story fragment of "Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin" as presented in Unfinished Tales makes me think it would have been something incredible to read in full, on a par with anything in LOTR.
Sneaking is a lonely business.
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