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The New Hobbit Hole

Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog

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To: JenB
Recently picked up the Unfinished Tales of Numemor and Middle Earth; has interesting mix of both, Narn I Hin Hurin seems to have epic narrative about it, complete with the dragon Glaurung. Not much magic except for the chief villan Glaurung. Getting into Aldarion and Erendis now.

Sue and I did a bit of home improvement type work today, finally finishing up the fence repairs. The work went well, was able to reuse just about all the boards from the previous section replacement, ah, recycle and reuse, just sawdust left and the odd rotten piece. The wood pile needs culling though. The pleasant sound of hand saw, can't be beat on cool morning. However we're not total ludites, the cordless driver does make short work of long screws.

6,281 posted on 05/26/2002 4:15:22 PM PDT by osagebowman
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To: Corin Stormhands
This dwarf decided not to cut the grass...be there sneaks about?
6,282 posted on 05/26/2002 4:27:42 PM PDT by Corin Stormhands
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To: Sam Cree
I'll bite. What is "conservatism"? I've always considered it one of those "fluid labels." I would probably fail a litmus test, but I consider myself conservative.
6,283 posted on 05/26/2002 4:28:09 PM PDT by Samwise
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To: osagebowman
A lot of the stories have a kind of "Beowulf" flavor to them, if you know what I mean. They've got dragons and such, but not random magics. There are no capricious spirits or demigods in Tolkien's universe; in fact it really is like the real world, only with dragons and Elves and such. Real World ++, if I may use geek lingo here.
6,284 posted on 05/26/2002 4:31:35 PM PDT by JenB
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla; HairOfTheDog; JenB; Penny1; 2JedisMom; Overtaxed; Corin Stormhands
Evening all!

Gee, I can't even keep close to keeping up around here. It seems like only a few days ago we were celebrating matching the old Hobbit Hole thread, and now we're up over 6000 already!

Anyway, I found a place to live in Arizona, and have sent my resume off to one job so far. Only 3 weeks of tech support left!! (Unless of course, I end being able to find nothing else in AZ, LOL.)

Well LotR is now at the bargain theater here, so I am going out for a walk then off to the movie! Later.

6,285 posted on 05/26/2002 4:36:31 PM PDT by ecurbh
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To: JenB
Wow... interesting perspective.

Well, thanks, I guess. :-) It comes from having just finished reading The Book of Lost Tales. Seeing how the stories of the First Age changed over time from their earliest forms was *very* interesting. The Hobbit was written in the 30s; I suspect that some of Tolkien's concepts hadn't changed as much from their earliest forms of the teens and 20s as they did by the time LOTR was published in the 50s.

Rohirrim or Gondorians would probably see Beorn as something out of a child's tale

Well, The Hobbit *is* a child's tale. As I understand it, Tolkien made it up to tell his children at bedtime, and was eventually convinced to write it down in book form.

The one thing I do agree with about your comment is that the magic in Middle-Earth fades.

That's true, although in the earliest concept the Elves' "fading" meant something very different. And I find it very interesting that when the Hobbits are in Lothlorien, asking the Elves there about "magic", the Elves aren't quite sure what the Hobbits mean by the word. Even Galadriel, when she was showing her mirror to Sam and Frodo, says, "... this is what your folk would call magic, I believe; though I do not understand clearly what they mean ...."

It's things like that that cause me to wonder if Tolkien, over time, changed his own views on what was "magical" in Middle Earth, and therefore the early stories have things like shape-changing galore, while in the later stories "magic" is just a greater understanding of natural processes.

6,286 posted on 05/26/2002 4:37:25 PM PDT by Bear_in_RoseBear
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To: Bear_in_RoseBear
Well, yes and no. There's more 'flashy' magic in Hobbit - think of Gandalf in the tree. But in LotR there's quiet, powerful, deep magic - or evil and dark magic, but still subdued. The Watchers at the black gate, the palantir, the Moria-gate; it's all part of an incredibly magical world, but not the world of someone who would say "Look! Shiny magic!"

The original versions of the stories did have more of a fairy-tale feel, didn't they? Like Beren being captive in the castle with the giant cat? But you've also got things, like the Fall of Gondolin, that go perfectly with the tone of Silmarillion...

6,287 posted on 05/26/2002 4:44:31 PM PDT by JenB
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To: Corin Stormhands
The dwarf is lonely...
6,288 posted on 05/26/2002 5:03:05 PM PDT by Corin Stormhands
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To: JenB
The original versions of the stories did have more of a fairy-tale feel, didn't they? Like Beren being captive in the castle with the giant cat? But you've also got things, like the Fall of Gondolin, that go perfectly with the tone of Silmarillion...

I would agree with that. As I was reading "The Fall of Gondolin" in the Lost Tales I kept thinking that I wished JRRT had been able to fully re-write the story for The Silmarillion. The story fragment of "Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin" as presented in Unfinished Tales makes me think it would have been something incredible to read in full, on a par with anything in LOTR.

6,289 posted on 05/26/2002 5:04:35 PM PDT by Bear_in_RoseBear
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To: Corin Stormhands
The dwarf is lonely...

Sneaking is a lonely business.

6,290 posted on 05/26/2002 5:06:03 PM PDT by Bear_in_RoseBear
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To: Corin Stormhands
The dwarf is in sneaking range.
6,291 posted on 05/26/2002 5:06:12 PM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: Overtaxed
No sneaking!
6,292 posted on 05/26/2002 5:06:54 PM PDT by JenB
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To: Overtaxed
Which sneak gets the Preciousss!
6,293 posted on 05/26/2002 5:07:54 PM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: Bear_in_RoseBear
Oh, yeah, ITA. As it is, the fragments are among the best things Tolkien wrote. Such a sad and wonderful story, isn't it? It could have rivalled Narn i hin Hurin.... which is beautiful but I don't really like it.
6,294 posted on 05/26/2002 5:08:05 PM PDT by JenB
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To: Overtaxed
You're being naughy - taking what is not yours - liberal!
6,295 posted on 05/26/2002 5:08:31 PM PDT by JenB
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To: JenB
Were there any sneaks in the Fall of Gondolin?
6,296 posted on 05/26/2002 5:09:26 PM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: Overtaxed
Yes, and they were killed horribly, like Maeglin!
6,297 posted on 05/26/2002 5:09:54 PM PDT by JenB
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To: JenB
Nasty thieveses stole it from me!
6,298 posted on 05/26/2002 5:10:16 PM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: Overtaxed
Not yours! Never!
6,299 posted on 05/26/2002 5:10:48 PM PDT by JenB
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To: Overtaxed
Ours!
6,300 posted on 05/26/2002 5:10:56 PM PDT by JenB
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