Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.
In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:
Our discussion has been light:
It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog
However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB
Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr
Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog
Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB
Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed
To the very philosophical:
…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla
To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…
…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB
Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog
…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1
Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed
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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom
…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253
Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed
So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.
I read a short "interview" with PJ and Fran on imladris.net, and it made me feel a lot better about the whole Oscars business. Like many of you, I don't expect LotR to take the major awards except for supporting actor, though I do expect technical awards. But in reading the interview, they were saying that while they were hoping for enough box office success to continue with the other movies, they were completely surprised by the critical praise the movie received. Much as I would love to see them take the top honors, and much as I believe they all deserve it for the quality of every aspect of the movie (especially the performances), I won't be devastated if they don't. I think they're all just thrilled and surprised to have received the nominations.
Now...if neither Viggo nor Elijah get nominated for at least one of the upcoming movies, I will be very upset. That's assuming they didn't suddenly lose all of their talent and focus between filming the first movie and filming the other two. ;)
A stern, cold, man even though I tear up throughout the book.
-ksen
-ksen
I suggest you take a look at A Landscape With Dragons: The Battle for Your Child's Mind by Michael O'Brien. Interestingly, Amazon also lists Landscape With Dragons; Christian and Pagan Imagination in Children's Literature, by the same author. It seems that only the first one has descriptive text accompanying it on Amazon. I have not read either one myself, but O'Brien is supposed to list recommended works of fantasy. I'm sure the list is in the first book, I don't know about the second.
You may also be interested in Christian Mythmakers : C. S. Lewis, Madeleine L'Engle, J. R. R. Tolkien, George MacDonald, G. K. Chesterton & Others by Rolland Hein. I have also not read this, but I saw it in Borders once, and it appears to be an overview of well-known Christian fantasy authors.
It would be best if I were recommending sources with which I am personally familiar, but I thought you might find the suggestions helpful.
You might also want to review the article Good Fantasy & Bad Fantasy from the evangelical Christian Research Institute.
For instance, I read Harry Potter, Susan Cooper's Dark is Rising, and Ursula LeGuin's Earthsea, all of which have been condemned by some Christians I know. On the other hand I myself think certain series (Donaldson's Thomas Covenant, Pullman's His Dark Materials) are completely unsuitable for Christian children, and maybe even for adults. I know Christians who read Stephen King and Anne Rice, and others who ban Mary Poppins from their homes. Everyone must strike his own balance.
Heck, if I attended a Christian college I'd probably be hauled off and burned with my own books; I read stuff by atheists, Buddhists, pagans and weirdoes. I think there's a definite difference between "bad becase it's not Christian" and "bad because it attacks Christianity". Oh, let's ditch this conversation and read Tolkien... at least until the "Tolkien was an evil idolater" people show up!
-ksen
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