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The New Hobbit Hole

Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog

Welcome to The New Hobbit Hole

Concerning Hobbits

The New Hobbit Chronicles

This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.

In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:

Our discussion has been light:

It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog

However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB

Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr

Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog

Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB

Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed

To the very philosophical:

…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla

To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…

…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB

Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog

…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1

Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed

-----------------------------------------

Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom

…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253

Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed

So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.


TOPICS: Books/Literature; Chit/Chat; Poetry; TV/Movies; The Hobbit Hole
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To: All
I have a request for everyone. As most are probably aware, I post an essay-a-day about some aspect of Tolkien's work (the Daily Tolkien). I still have plenty of articles to post before I deplete my sources but I would like to have more variety of writers to choose from.

My request is this, if you know of any websites with a selection of essays (or even just one or two essays) please let me know about it.

46,201 posted on 12/09/2002 4:51:46 AM PST by JameRetief
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To: ItsOurTimeNow
"Our society, by and large, automatically defaults to the lowest level of intellect"

I believe that to be a characteristic of leftist thinking, which values the group, not the individual.

The fact that this seems to be true is a demonstration that American society has moved substantially left, mostly during the 20th century, IMO.

46,202 posted on 12/09/2002 5:07:41 AM PST by Sam Cree
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To: JameRetief
Awesome posts! Thank you! I'll be all day reading them.

Moronic politics aside, I found this statement by Vigs refreshing:

Oh, it's all marketing. You could do the fifty most beautiful plumbers of Madison, Wisconsin, and you could make a case for that. But it's a celebrity driven culture. If it wasn't for ''The Lord of the Rings,'' I certainly wouldn't be in that magazine, and I'm well aware of that.

Does humility trump liberalism?

46,203 posted on 12/09/2002 5:08:09 AM PST by Lil'freeper
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To: Sam Cree
And I think it is interesting that the left leaning of the country happened when the citizens realized that they could vote themselves funds out of the public treasury.

Ideology, to most voters, have little to do with it. The cash cow does... that's the danger. Most Americans (and the fact that we are on a political website means we are not like most Americans. We actually know who our Senators are) do not have a clue what the ideology of their candidates are... or where they will lead the country. All they know is that candidate will continue the free money!

46,204 posted on 12/09/2002 5:28:35 AM PST by carton253
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To: Lil'freeper
"Does humility trump liberalism?"

I don't know, I have some "liberal" friends that I really love, who are, except for their moronic politics, beautiful people. Any successes that they might achieve, I would be proud of them, as long as it did not include getting their stupid political ideas signed into law.

Viggo seems like a good guy, except politically he's infuriating.

46,205 posted on 12/09/2002 5:30:15 AM PST by Sam Cree
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To: JameRetief
Great stuff! More scans than anyone could ever wish for.
Some great reading here...
46,206 posted on 12/09/2002 5:32:29 AM PST by maquiladora
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To: Sam Cree
And the fact that he keeps cleaning himself up... where's the mud... where's the beard... where's the grunge... where's the sword...

Viggo is politically infuriating... but at least Viggo thinks about politics and has a position. I'd rather have that then the non-engaged population that makes up about 53% of America.

46,207 posted on 12/09/2002 5:34:14 AM PST by carton253
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To: carton253
Good morning, Carton!

"And I think it is interesting that the left leaning of the country happened when the citizens realized that they could vote themselves funds out of the public treasury."

I believe you are right about that. That would explain why our leftward tilt coincides with the 20th century, since the beginning of that centuy is when the income tax was instituted. The income tax gave politicians the ability to buy votes, by promising to take wealth from one segment of society and give to another.

I sort of think we would have voted our rights away a long time ago, if not for our Constitution, though that is certainly under attack, too.

46,208 posted on 12/09/2002 5:37:03 AM PST by Sam Cree
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To: Sam Cree
And class warfare is an effective tool since it plays upon class envy. When you talk to the average citizen (those who don't vote, etc.) they really resent the rich. And that's because they aren't rich themselves (something they would give their right arm to be). It's a double standard. The rich are terrible because they are rich and the poor aren't. But they (those who envy the rich) want to be rich.

It was funny... during California's energy crisis, Barbra Striesand's webpage had instruction for Californians to conserve electricity. When the press asked Streisand if she would follow her own advice, her response was that she could not. Her celebrity prevented her from doing so. It wasn't practical. Bless her heart!

Ben Affleck, during the 2000 election, said that he thought it was his duty to pay taxes because the country had been good to him. Admirable! Until one learns that most of his income is protected in off-shore accounts, shelters, etc.

I'm not making a judgment... I think it's just interesting. It is do as I say, not as I do.

46,209 posted on 12/09/2002 5:47:26 AM PST by carton253
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To: Sam Cree
And class warfare is an effective tool since it plays upon class envy. When you talk to the average citizen (those who don't vote, etc.) they really resent the rich. And that's because they aren't rich themselves (something they would give their right arm to be). It's a double standard. The rich are terrible because they are rich and the poor aren't. But they (those who envy the rich) want to be rich.

It was funny... during California's energy crisis, Barbra Striesand's webpage had instruction for Californians to conserve electricity. When the press asked Streisand if she would follow her own advice, her response was that she could not. Her celebrity prevented her from doing so. It wasn't practical. Bless her heart!

Ben Affleck, during the 2000 election, said that he thought it was his duty to pay taxes because the country had been good to him. Admirable! Until one learns that most of his income is protected in off-shore accounts, shelters, etc.

I'm not making a judgment... I think it's just interesting. It is do as I say, not as I do.

46,210 posted on 12/09/2002 5:47:50 AM PST by carton253
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To: Sam Cree
And class warfare is an effective tool since it plays upon class envy. When you talk to the average citizen (those who don't vote, etc.) they really resent the rich. And that's because they aren't rich themselves (something they would give their right arm to be). It's a double standard. The rich are terrible because they are rich and the poor aren't. But they (those who envy the rich) want to be rich.

It was funny... during California's energy crisis, Barbra Striesand's webpage had instruction for Californians to conserve electricity. When the press asked Streisand if she would follow her own advice, her response was that she could not. Her celebrity prevented her from doing so. It wasn't practical. Bless her heart!

Ben Affleck, during the 2000 election, said that he thought it was his duty to pay taxes because the country had been good to him. Admirable! Until one learns that most of his income is protected in off-shore accounts, shelters, etc.

I'm not making a judgment... I think it's just interesting. It is do as I say, not as I do.

46,211 posted on 12/09/2002 5:48:16 AM PST by carton253
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To: Sam Cree
Sorry for the triple post... I couldn't figure out what happened. I'd post, and nothing. So, I thought I didn't do it right... There was a 1 minute response between hitting the post button and the post coming up.

Sorry again!

46,212 posted on 12/09/2002 5:49:26 AM PST by carton253
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To: carton253
I have a cousin, a Democrat, who has been quite successful in business. As a "good liberal," he happily pays his taxes. He says he "feels" he should be "penalized" for making money, he actually uses the word penalized.

So I guess his thinking is the traditional socialist thinking that the creation of wealth results from the exploitation of others, even though the truth is usually quite the reverse.
46,213 posted on 12/09/2002 6:03:38 AM PST by Sam Cree
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To: Sam Cree
*whew* I just finished reading the scanned articles- good stuff! Elijah is a great kid, but I wish the mags wouldn't ignore the 'other' characters: Bloom, Boyd, Monaghan, Bean, Otto, etc. They put Bloom on the cover of one, but then didn't really interview him. Argh.

And Arena magazine- ICK! Their sidebar articles (dark gray) are horrid. One makes the "It's all an allegory for...." error and calls JRR a "bible loon". The other is all about porn parodies. Glad I didn't buy the mag.

46,214 posted on 12/09/2002 6:11:54 AM PST by Lil'freeper
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To: Sam Cree
And I would rather have that type of liberal as a citizen...then those who are "free riders" at the expense of the middle class.

Your cousin's thinkings only represent one of the problem with liberalism. He's approach is pretty noble on the surface. Here, take 30 - 50 percent of my income. I don't deserve it. But there is another side of the problem that is more insidious. It is those who do not want to work and have purposed to live off the public dole for their lives. Now... I don't have a problem with public assistance for the short term. But, I do have a problem with public assistance for 4 or 5 generations. No one is helped.

The liberals (not your cousin) but those who work behind the scenes to lead this country further and further from her original foundation... are dangerous because they want the 4th or 5th generation welfare recepient... those people owe them now... and soon, the liberals will call in the marker. Free money isn't free money. Everything comes with a price. The welfare recepient doesn't realize it, but his debt is about to be called soon.

And for your cousin, I guess pointing out the problems of those state institutions under attack from illegal aliens (healthcare, welfare, etc) or the troubles in Europe as the social states begin to break down will convince him that a social state is nothing but a debt ready to explode?

46,215 posted on 12/09/2002 6:13:26 AM PST by carton253
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To: Corin Stormhands
Yawn...hullo! Good morning...zzzzzz

I'mup, I'mup....now to go back through and catch up on posts...

46,216 posted on 12/09/2002 6:22:07 AM PST by Corin Stormhands
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To: Lil'freeper
I've been happily avoiding knowing anything about the personal politics of the actors, until the dummy, Viggo, went ahead and made it unavoidable.

But I always thought that Peter Jackson looks like a big ole liberal...but I guess I am going to make the assumption that they are nice folks, and that therefore I can continue to enjoy the films.

And, luckily, Rhys Davies is making a strong effort to redeem the rest of them. And it is reassuring to know that JRRT himself did not approve of leftist philosophy.

I think they are all fabulous in their roles.
46,217 posted on 12/09/2002 6:27:16 AM PST by Sam Cree
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To: JenB
I think I had been picturing waltzes and such, you know, like from a Jane Austen movie, and it was... rap-style stuff with a disco ball and lots of people jumping around.

I'd love to go to one of those dances too, Jen. I just don't think they exist anymore. A few years ago when the Faberge exhibit was traveling, the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts held the Faberge Ball which was the social event of the year, if not the decade in Richmond. (The Virginia Museum has the largest private collection of Faberge items).

A photographer friend of ours was the event photographer, so we worked with her crew for the evening. (that was the only way we would get there). I had images of the beautiful people waltzing across the dance floor. Anyway, I realized that night that drunk is ugly, no matter how much money you have.

46,218 posted on 12/09/2002 6:36:26 AM PST by Corin Stormhands
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To: SuziQ; JenB
I AM Catholic, and I've been to a few bizarre ones myself.

I'm NOT Catholic, but I think Mass can be beautiful. However, one of the most bizarre things I've ever seen was a Korean Catholic funeral. It was a traditional Catholic funeral...but all in Korean.

46,219 posted on 12/09/2002 6:38:13 AM PST by Corin Stormhands
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To: Overtaxed
I knew you guys were hit pretty hard. My mother-in-law in Greensboro went to stay with her son who has a wood stove. Smart move.

Sorry to hear about the trees. We dodged the worst of the ice, but got about 4 inches of snow. An ice storm like that and I'll be dealing with the same type of tree damage. We lost several branches during summer storms just because the trees were so dry and brittle.

Hope all gets restored at your house soon.

46,220 posted on 12/09/2002 6:42:37 AM PST by Corin Stormhands
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