Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.
In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:
Our discussion has been light:
It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog
However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB
Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr
Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog
Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB
Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed
To the very philosophical:
…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla
To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…
…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB
Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog
…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1
Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed
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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom
…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253
Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed
So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.
But I'm with you. I try not to let the idots spoil too much of my fun- and I'm pretty good at it. I love U2's music, but Bono is such a dufuss!
He's right, sure, but that's just like disarming, and taking it on faith that the rest of the world will follow suit. They won't.
(From an NRO reader): I happened to catch part of Charlie Rose's show last night when his guests were Peter Jackson, Elijah Wood, and Viggo Mortensen. Check out Rose's website for a picture of Rose and the 3 members from the LotR crew. They wasted at least 15 minutes of the interview discussing Mortensen's homemade "No More Blood For Oil" shirt that he wore on the program and which is shown in the photo on the site. Mortensen stated he was tired of hearing people make comparisons between the events in the film and the current world political situation. (He actually may be the first person I've heard make this comparison.) He went on to say that if a comparison is to be made, the US would definitely not be the good guys. Also raised the tired line that there has been no discussion about why we are going to war. Went on ad naseum. Almost enough to make me not want to see the film.
"THE TWO TOWERS" [Rod Dreher]
Saw it tonight. I give it a B, but if I hadn't read the book first, I'd probably give it a strong A. It's three hours long, but that time flies by. The film barely stops, which you can understand inasmuch as they've got a hell of a lot of plot to get through. "The Two Towers" was my favorite of the trilogy, in part because I absolutely loved the Ents, and their world. There are Ents here, of course, but they get very short shrift. I realized while watching the movie that my favorite parts of the book were the poetic moments, when I was able to relax and take in the wondrously imaginative world Tolkien had created. In the film, it's all go, go, go -- which still makes for a pretty impressive film, but I could have used less action and more thought. If it sounds like I'm having trouble criticizing the movie, well, I am; I'm knocked flat by the fact that a movie version of "The Two Towers" that looks as good as this one got made. I think it only disappoints when compared to the book, a comparison as unfair as it is inevitable.
Posted at 02:32 AM
P.S. TTT [Rod Dreher]
The fate of Saruman is far too hastily executed, if you ask me. But Gollum is pretty great. He looks like Steve Buscemi crossed with an elderly komodo dragon.
Posted at 02:37 AM
I'll see you later, TONS of work...
I don't think Boromir wanted to eclipse his brother. Boromir was always thrust into the forefront by Denethor, and I think Boromir was the "favorite son" of the two boys. Faramir, I agree, was a better and more natural leader, but I attribute it to the fact that he always had to play second fiddle to his older brother.
Here's a tasty bit from The Encyclopedia of Arda that attempts to explain this, and the meaning of the brother's names:
The -mir ending of Faramir's name is almost certainly 'jewel' or 'precious thing', but Fara- is much more difficult to translate. The Elvish root far- means 'sufficient' or 'adequate', so it may be that the brothers Boromir and Faramir have names related to their father's attitude toward them. As Denethor's favourite son, Boromir was perhaps the 'faithful jewel', while the less favoured Faramir was merely the 'sufficient jewel'. These speculations, of course, belong to the realm of guesswork, since Tolkien makes no definitive statement about the names' origins.
Now back to your normal discussion....
Very true. That could create quite a low self-esteem in anyone.
I'm fortunate that my name's meaning has a Samwise Gamgee flair. Ruth means "faithful friend". :)
I haven't started my latest re-read just yet and may be off the mark, but I think the Noble fella from the article is really missing out on an important dimension of Boromir. There was more to that guy than "bitterness" that the Stewards weren't really the King.
I do too, except for leftists, it's pretty clear that there's not room in it for them, many of them even realize it.
I don't think it's even possible to pin down a definition of what a conservative is today, as FR clearly demonstrates, the views that fall within "conservatism" are extremely varied. A Leftist can, though, be easily defined, as the Left follows specific philosophies.
I do believe that Tolkien's views would fall somewhere within the conservative pantheon, but would undoubtedly be at odds with much of today's conservatism, especially the aspects of it that you point out.
Come to think of it, lots of folks on FR make me mad, too.
"He painted an ideal that was beautiful, but can no longer be"
I usually think that the "Shire" is in the same Anglo Saxon tradition of individual liberty that our founding fathers drew from. Perhaps you are right that it can no longer work...I like to think we should retain as much of it as we can, without our traditions, I believe we will eventually fail.
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