Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.
In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:
Our discussion has been light:
It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog
However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB
Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr
Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog
Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB
Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed
To the very philosophical:
…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla
To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…
…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB
Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog
…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1
Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed
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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom
…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253
Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed
So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.
I'm betting on my excitement being contagious though. He won't be able to bring me down off of my cloud, that's for sure. I've almost convinced him to brave the crowds and go to the very first showing of TTT. :)
"The FRiders of FRohan"? LOL
Ooooh! I like that one the best! It gets my vote.
Ah yes, THUNDERSNOW! The first time I saw THAT phenomenon, I couldn't believe it! I saw the snow falling, saw a flash in the clouds, then heard thunder! Talk about cognitive dissonance!
We've seen LOTS of squirrels out gathering acorns, etc, the last week or two. A number of them haven't made it across the roads! We wondered if the number running around might be a harbinger of a cold, snowy winter. We haven't had a BAD winter in a few years. Last year it hardly snowed at all, and the weather was fairly mild except for a few days of hard cold. Put all together, the extremely cold days probably didn't total up to two weeks! I'm not complaining, mind you!
I like that one too, Hair. It sounds as though the movie will end after Ithilien and Osgiliath, just before they make the long climb into Shelob's lair, so that title would be very appropriate.
I believe the wooly worms are predicting a cold winter.
I've seen them in the past, but haven't seen any this year. I was thinking of checking the Farmer's Almanac.
The Prologue is sharper, crisper, and easier to see, as the battle scenes are lighter than they were in the theater. It is easier to hear what is being said. Gollum… “The Precioussses is lossttt stood out more in this version.
Then comes the movie. Could Peter Jackson improve on what I saw in the theater? He could just by giving us more… but the scenes inserted make the movie a brand new movie.
The opening scenes – Concerning Hobbits must have broken his heart to cut. The scenes of the Hobbits going about their daily life while Bilbo narrates were lyrical. Every word and every scene revealing these little peoples’ manner and lifestyle.
When Bilbo thinks he looses the rings shadows perfectly Gollum’s despair when he knows the Precious is lost. This forebodes the strength and power of the ring.
The conversation between Frodo and Gandalf lets us really know that Frodo suspects something. In the theatrical version, that part of the conversation is "understood".
I loved the additional party scene where Bilbo hides from the Sackville-Bagginses. It was perfect. I also enjoyed very much the additional few lines of dialogue where Bilbo tells Frodo good-bye before popping on the ring.
FRODO – Frodo’s character doesn’t change much in the additional footage except he is hi-lighted as the “ring-bearer”, a position given honor and respect. From the time the Fellowship sets off for Mordor onward, Frodo is given leadership role. Even Gandalf yields to his decision.
SAM – Sam’s character is fleshed out a lot more. Instead of just watching out for Mr. Frodo, you see Sam doing what he loves – with Rosie, with his plants. Watching the Elves. When he asks Galadriel for one of them daggers, he was so cute.
MERRY – In the book, Merry is wise. In the movie, without the scenes, the wisdom plays second fiddle to the “comic” role. In the added scenes, the strength and courage of Merry is brought more to the forefront.
PIPPIN – Is still on a lark. But, Galadriel says that he will find his courage, and with the additional scenes you can see that begin to happen.
The Hobbits were very shortchanged in the theatrical release. Their courage played second fiddle to the courage of the others. In the extended version, you have them playing an active role in their defense and in the defense of others. Especially in the last scene. In the original, Boromir defends them until after his death, where the Hobbits then launch an attack. In the SE, the hobbits are fighting along side Boromir. I like this change. It makes the Hobbits less “childlike” and more able to do for themselves.
The Others
LEGALOS – With the exception of Gandalf, the character of Legalos undergoes the least change. He is stalwart, brave, and an awesome fighter. The only thing that truly changes is he takes on more of his princely demeanor especially when he is in Lothlorien. Legalos is a prince after all. His fight scenes are more spectacular. Instead of doing the rapid, arrow shot that impressed me during the theatrical movie, it is now doubled. That’s fine with me.
GIMLI – His character has the most change. He seems to have been lost throughout the original. Here he is in all his personality. Thrilled to be at Moira, contemptuous of the elves, drawn, in spite of himself, to Galadriel. Honorable and courageous… he is the picture of the dwarves so vividly drawn in The Hobbit. Gimli reminds me of Thorin Oakenshield, not a bad role model.
Yes – and Thorin got a mention.
BOROMIR – I have always liked the character of Boromir. I have never thought him a weak man or an evil man. He is a man who wants to save his city, and thinks the ring is the weapon do that. He has no use for Aragorn because Aragorn has never lived up to his duty. That is why Boromir has joined the Fellowship… because as the next Steward of Gondor, he will see it done. I like to see the extended play between he and Aragorn. The natural enmity that Boromir has for this “King”. Boromir is able to do what no one else can do. Call Aragorn on his fears. With that scene, the motivation of Boromir’s grab for the ring makes sense. I wish this scene had never been cut. It is a necessary one for the understanding of Boromir’s later grab of the ring. He has never stopped seeing it as a weapon.
ARAGORN – When the new scenes were added, suddenly Aragorn was drawn as a more likeable guy. He may be reluctant to be king, but he is kingly in everything he does. I like the additional scenes of he with the Hobbits and especially with he and Gimli. These scenes give Aragorn more depth, more humor, more personality. I liked the Aragorn of the original movie. I like this Aragorn much better.
GALADRIEL – I never like this character. Either in the book or the movie. I find her not likeable. Until these new scenes. She is wise, warm (something that I never saw her as) and giving. The gift scene is a wonderful scene… and as Rightwingreligiousfanatic states: “That smile.”
CELEBORN – He has more to do… and takes his place as the King of Lothlorien.
GANDALF – Is the one who changes the least. He’s the same old Gandalf!
The additional Lothlorien scenes are my favorite. Humor, exposition, personalities all are revealed here.
I like the longer battle at the end, especially the addition of a fighting Merry and Pippin. The longer fight scene in Moira is nice, but I thought it dragged out a little too long. That’s personal opinion only.
When New Line called for cuts to short the running time, it must have hurt PJ to cut these scenes. These scenes are the heart of the movie. Don’t get me wrong… the movie I saw last year was phenomenal. I saw it 9 times in the theater. I can’t wait to see TTT. This movie those is far above what I saw in the theater. It is a different movie altogether. Much closer to the book. Much closer to the characters the Tolkien wrote. Is it December 18th yet?
It's hard getting old!
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