The New Hobbit Hole

[HairOfTheDog]

Welcome to The New Hobbit Hole
Concerning Hobbits
The New Hobbit Chronicles

This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.

In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:

Our discussion has been light:

It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog

However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB

Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr

Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog

Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB

Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed

To the very philosophical:

…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla

To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…

…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB

Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog

…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1

Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed

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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom

…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253

Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed

So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.

[Snake65]

Sorry to break in on this but good use of POV really makes or breaks a story. You're right to do a lot of thinking about it. What might help you decide is to consider making the viewpoint character the one who has the most at stake/most to gain or lose (emotionally, physically, whatever) in the scene you're writing.

[JenB]

Like I said, if you want opinions, encouragement, or just to know that someone else has read the thing...

Ok, so I'm procrastinating on my own thing.

[JenB]

You know, I've found that to be very true. Usually I write in first-person female POV. For some reason with the story I'm writing now, it's third-person limited omniscence, and a male character. It makes things... interesting, to say the least, and I'm pleasantly surprised how well it's going for me.

[Overtaxed]

It's just that I'm used to writing shor short children's stories. If I write stories with two or more viewpoint characters, alarm bells start going offf! :)

[HairOfTheDog]

Hullo! Cleaning is the word of the day here too.

Tip. Don't buy the cheapest keyboard they have. I bought a new one less than a month ago because I thought my old one was getting sticky, and the new one just failed. $10 keyboards are not a good deal. It makes a difference, I guess! Guess I should have ordered a new one from Dell.

Back to the old one now, but wiser than I was!

[RosieCotton]

I'm about 1500 words short of my quota (didn't write yesterday, but I'm caught up and starting on today). However, I'm not at one of the most critical parts of the story and am almost afraid of tackling it for fear I won't get it right, since so much of the rest of the story depends on it. It involves interpretation of the writing on the stones, and since the message has to be divided up between the four of 'em, it's tricky, to say the least.

[Overtaxed]

or just to know that someone else has read the thing...

But, but....words have power, you know. If anyone should read This Thing something, anything might happen to them. And as you know it's Crap, that anything will surely be evil. :)

[JenB]

Heh. I once wrote a story with... well, it was a serial, and it started with one viewpoint, grew to six, and then shrunk to two and an occasional omniscient. Of course I was fifteen at the time and didn't know any better.

[JenB]

Hey, I'm writing crap, and it's fun. And I promise I won't let it hurt me. I have my lucky word-processor running right now!

[Overtaxed]

In other news....it's a bit warmish here....high of 70....so I have the patio door open halfway. It seems the squirrels object to my whistle....hehehehe.....

[Snake65]

I've only recently started using multiple viewpoints in my work. Everything up to now I've kept tight within the scope of a single POV...if the character doesn't know or see something, neither does the audience. I figure that helps them build sympathy with my character.

Obviously, there's no right or wrong answer, it's what you are comfortable with and think will tell the story best.

[Snake65]

That's smart. My aunt writes children's stories. She's had two published...but she writes really slowly, only does a book about every four years.

[JenB]

Yes, the writer I most despise has a tendency to use waaayy too many viewpoints (Robert Jordan) and I think that soured me on the whole thing. Then again, in SF and fantasy, multiple POVs seem to be more common than in other genres. I think it's because the stories are bigger - "writ larger"?

[Overtaxed]

The only problem is, or rather was, that I didn't have time enough to write and do market research. But at least no one said "give it up, you'll never make it."

[Snake65]

There are some sloppy fantasy writers out there. It doesn't seem like he's doing it, but Tolkien tells the Lord of the Rings through the hobbits eyes, really (there are a few exceptions, like you see what happens in front of the black gate even though Pippin is under a troll at that point). Clever old cuss, that JRR.

[RosieCotton]

I once wrote a story with... well, it was a serial, and it started with one viewpoint, grew to six, and then shrunk to two and an occasional omniscient. Of course I was fifteen at the time and didn't know any better.

Well...I'm doing four viewpoints, in a way, and at 26 I guess I should know better. ;-) But I LIKE my characters, and I think it will work. And I'm not doing first person. Multiple first person viewpoints really get on my nerves, unless done very well.

[Overtaxed]

It's my understanding that you can get away with multiple viewpoints in a longer piece. Your main character isn't going to be everywhere.

[JenB]

Err... that's what I did in the story in question. It is really confusing: I labelled each person's section in order to keep them straight myself!

Now one writer who's good with multiple POVs - though all third person - is George RR Martin. His "Song of Ice and Fire" series has about eight different POVs, mostly well done.

[JenB]

Your main character isn't going to be everywhere.

In the case of my current story, that may not be quite true! But you are right about that. I think it depends on your skill as author.

[Snake65]

So what are the stories about (don't tell if you think it'll jinx you)?