Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.
In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:
Our discussion has been light:
It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog
However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB
Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr
Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog
Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB
Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed
To the very philosophical:
…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla
To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…
…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB
Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog
…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1
Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed
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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom
…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253
Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed
So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.
I'm still gloating,
How about you?
I'm still gloating,
Woo Hoo Hoo!
You were probably all pinged to that Tom Bombadil thread - very excellent piece there.
Carton, I would advise against wearing your NRA t-shirt and further antagonizing the poor guy.... Get your A first, get out of there, then you can harass him all you want ;^)
I can't keep up with fully reading all of the NaNoWriMo material, just skimming it, but it is some good quality stuff from everybody (but I'm partial to Rosie's right now). Hope you all get published someday.
I'm reading "Peace Like a River" by Leif Enger for a book club we belong to. It is a wonderful story which I would highly recommend to you all. Quirky, humorous, real, serious, Christian characters in a good light without being smarmy. I'll supply another plug when I finish it.
I'm going to keep my Coleman bumper sticker on a couple more days so I can gloat as I drive. But then I'll probably take it off and get serious.
Thanks for the food, RM! Hits the spot!
Just one more thing for which to NOT thank x42! He leaned heavily on Israel, especially Ehud Barak, to 'make peace' with the Palis. He wanted to have a 'Rose Garden moment' like Jimmy Carter, getting the Palis and Israel together (remember him pushing them toward each other to shake hands?)
Congrats on your test. Keep showing that lib prof just how intelligent conservatives are. You are rocking his political world; he may just have to seriesly rethink his positions!
Nah, I'm an overtaxed Jewish business owner.
You should have a wide-screen t.v. by now!
Unfortunately mrs. angelo spends all our money on toys for the kids. ;o)
Have you heard the story behind it?
Did he announce his retirement effective, dare we hope, immediately?
He's admitting it?
When sorrows like sea billows roll..... Whatever my lot, Thou hast taught me to say, It is well, it is well with my soul.
What's his problem? Didn't he manufacture enough votes?
Well, what would make the kids happier than a 65" wide-screen HDTV to watch Barney and VeggieTales on?
Only $4,999 at Sears.
LOL! I don't think that would even fit in my living room! Maybe after I finish off the basement.
The Mandate did not give the Jews the land. It clarified that the land belonged to the Jews and they had the right to return to it. The Arabs signed off on the Balfour Agreement in the person of the King of Iraq. Anyway, the Mandate included Jordan too.
In the 1920's to appease the Arabs, Britain cut the Mandated land in two, giving the Palestinians TransJordan and putting on the throne a British puppet.
When the 1948 vote came to establish a homeland, the remaining land was divided into two again. But that land never belonged to the "Palestinians". In fact, instead of accepting the 1948 Resolution, 5 Arab countries declared war on Israel hoping to destroy them. (In fact, Iraq is still at war with Israel). Jordan claimed the West Bank. They never annexed it though.
As the 1948/1949 War for Independence raged, there was population shifts. There were times the Israelis said to certain Arab villages, you have to leave. This is rare. Most of the time, the Israelis implored the Arabs to stay. The Arabs ordered the Paletinians out of their villages with the promise that it would be only temporary. They would soon return and enjoy the spoils of victory.
From 1949-1967, there was no cry for a Palestinian homeland. There was a huge exodus of Jews from Arab countries because the Arabs threw them out. Israel quickly absorbed them. The UN refuses to call these Jewish displaced people refugees because the statue of limitation has run out. Furthermore, the displaced Arabs from the war are still refugees, and there numbers are constantly increasing.
Gaza during this time was run by Egypt. No Palestinian homeland set up.
Then came the War of 1967. Israel wins back the territories, but keeps the Jordanian status quo. Jordan throws the Palestinian Liberation Army out of Jordan (Black September) and the terror (which had been occuring since 1948, increases). The PLO go to Lebanon. They are beaten in Lebanon, go into exile in Tunisia, and are awarded the West Bank in the Oslo Accord.
It wasn't until the 1980's that settlements began to grow... (though Oslo gave the Palestinians a trade of lands equal to the amount taken by settlements) The reasoning behind this is that the West Bank is Israel. They didn't conquer land in the 1967 land... it was their's (and lost in war and won back in war) Funny, no one in the world community never objected when Jordan won it and governed it. Why object when Israel does.
The Arabs keep the Palestinians in camps because they are great PR for the destruction of Israel and the West. Israel is hated and America is hated because Muslims believe that Islam has been humiliated by an inferior culture, ideology, and religion. They feel they are duty bound to overthrow that culture by jihad.
The other Arab countries use the Palestinians in their war against the West and each other. You have two players in the Middle East. You have countries like Iran who want to establish a Islamic nation. You have countries like Iraq, Egypt who are Pan-Arabists, and want to restore the golden age of the Arabs. They use the Palestinians to further their aims.
Take the Saudi government. They are under great pressure because they are corrupt and oppressive. There is a huge segment of Saudis who want the Iranian form of government. The Saudis distract these sentiments by playing up the poor Palestinians. Then the rabble go over and get mad at the Jews and the West until they have exhausted themselves. The Saudi government breathes easy. Keep those people in the camps! We may need them in another month or two.
Its dangerous and perilious... It's history is long and involved. It's absolutely fascinating. Terrorism must be defeated.
By the way, UN Security Council did vote 15-0 on the US resolution regarding Iraq's disarmament.
Speaking of the Security Council, did you know that every country has a turn to sit on this important world body... but Israel. They are not allowed!
We are comparing the forces of civilization with what is essentially a barbarian culture of death. And Islam is at the root. < /rant >
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