Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.
In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:
Our discussion has been light:
It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog
However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB
Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr
Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog
Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB
Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed
To the very philosophical:
…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla
To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…
…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB
Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog
…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1
Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed
-----------------------------------------
Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom
…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253
Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed
So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.
I knew they were gay....
Class is done, see you this evening!
One last post, and then I've got to leave until later. But the article I've been talking about addresses this as well. I don't necessarily agree with it, but let me put it out for conversational purposes:
"Equally misunderstood and misrepresented are those who have succumbed to the forces of evil. An excellent example is in the depiction of the Orcs, a race that was bred to be the minions of evil. They are the scions of snared Elves and Men, twisted and broken over the centuries. In Tolkien's depiction, these hordes are just that - hordes. They are surprisingly faceless in battle. One gets the impression that, if the average swordsman came upon a solitary Orc, he would be revolted and saddened, but not particularly threatened. In numbers, however, they are the overwhelming masses of bureaucratic evil: the nameless, faceless denizens of the dark, tied to their Lord by mutual hatred and fear, rather than by loyalty and love. Even the "fighting Uruk-hai," the larger, stronger Orcs bred by the turncoat wizard Saruman to fight in the sunlight, are not individual "personalities" so much as a powerful cohort.
"Yet Jackson, though he expends valuable screen time on the exposition of their lineage, misses this crucial point when he dedicates huge amounts of time to brief shots of snarling individual Orcs. In so doing he nullifies the true horror of the Orcs; this faceless horde is what broken and twisted people can become. Instead, his Orcs are persons to be reckoned with. Their lack of virtue has made them personalities, individually important. The only place where they are really frightening as a horde is the Dwarf-mines of Moria, and there they are transformed into an insectile swarm that descends the columns of the hall to surround the Fellowship. They have lost all connection with us. They are not twisted versions of recognizable people. They are totally other. Jackson's cartoonish Orcs are evil because they are foreign, not foreign because they are evil."
Thoughts?
What a brilliant description of the current Senate Judiciary Committee Democrats.....
As someone who read the trilogy AFTER watching the movie, I found that the Orcs were made more frightening in the book after witnessing Jackson's individual attention to their horridness in the movie.
Peter Jackson's LoTR was created for both Tolkien fans AND those who have never even read The Hobbit, so if anything, PJ's creative license more than likely sparked more than a few people to pick up the LoTR books. My husband is one of them and so am I (although I had read The Hobbit on more than one occasion before the movie was made).
If PJ had made the movie solely for Tolkien fans, spending less time on details like the origin and nastiness of Orcs, he would have lost a lot of repeat customers in the theatre who couldn't make any sense of the story without first reading the books. He presents it in a way that explains the basics to those who have never heard of Tolkien, but still takes the time to catch most of the trivialities that die-hard fans expect to see.
PJ's LoTR = job well done.
This is absolutely the case...and is why I don't feel much guilt when it comes to movie-elf bashing.
Yep...I'm lucky in that I'm in perhaps the most conservative county in the state (we all had fun torturing our token Democrat during the whole Gore / Bush election fiasco), but the flatlanders in some of the other counties tend to beat us out in the voting booth. It's really frustrating, and the reason I avoid any Vermont threads in the News forum - there are always TONS of people who will happily treat ALL Vermonters as if we're closet liberals. Sigh!
Can you imagine the misery of watching any movie with tis guy???
Whoo Hoo! Say it loud! Say it proud, Rosie!
Add her to the (ever growing) Elf Bash list, OT!
No! You guys back ALL elves, regardless of whether they're the movie or book version! That ain't me!
I would LOVE to spend a year or two among the REAL elves at Rivendell, listening to all the talk and music, learning as much as I could from them.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.