Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.
In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:
Our discussion has been light:
It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog
However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB
Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr
Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog
Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB
Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed
To the very philosophical:
…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla
To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…
…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB
Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog
…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1
Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed
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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom
…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253
Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed
So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.
I've been reading with interest people's views on Boromir. The assessments are pretty good, but it seems like nobody has mentioned that Boromir is also a glory hound. Both from his own words, and later on in the story, he's clearly a man who believes in his noble mission, and expects that songs will be sung about his valor and greatness, whether he lives or dies. Faramir, OTOH, had no such yearning for glory, although it could be heaped on him unwanted.
Looking at the rest of the Nine, none of them gave a thought to personal glory, except maybe in an odd unguarded moment. I think the Ring was testing everyone, and "got a nibble" from Boromir. Galadriel toyed with the idea for a few seconds, but resisted. Gandalf recoiled as if someone flung a poisonous snake at him.
This desire for glory is not bad in itself, especially if someone, like Boromir, was raised to be a warrior, and to do great deeds. It was reasonable for him to assume his great deeds would be sung, which just helped encourage him to undertake greater and greater deeds of valor.
It was just that in this situation, the nature of the Ring made his desire for glory the exact wrong trait to have. It was counterintuitive for him to reject the Ring like everyone else was. He really didn't believe that the Ring was utterly evil. He felt that he could master it to his will, do tremendous good with it, and reap the glory.
At least Boromir was strong enough and noble enough to realize the error of his ways, and was able to redeem himself before his death. He achieved some of the honor he desired, from his new king, and from the stories that would be told about him.
Yes, that was certainly one scene that I didn't recall from reading the book...even fantasy has to have some degree of realism!
Was it subtitled in Japanese then? (As opposed to being dubbed) The subtitles would not be necessary for you I suppose except for the parts where they are speaking elvish.
LOTR is actually being shown in both subtitled and dubbed versions here -- Harry Potter was the first example of this I know -- and naturally I went to see the subtitled version; I might watch the dubbed version someday when I purchase the LOTR DVD.
I'll have you know I'm fluent in Elvish, too (and I think Arwen needs to work on her pronunciation), so I didn't need the subtitles there, either. :-) The parts where Elvish was spoken were subtitled in both Japanese and English for non-Elvish speakers.
I did read the Japanese subtitles as I watched the movie the second time (to make sure I could discuss it with my Japanese companion afterwards -- you'd be amazed at how different the story seems when the dialogue is in 4-second bites), and I felt sorry for the Japanese viewers who missed so much of the nuance.
Is the film well recieved over there?
The movie has only been out here for two weeks, but it's been No. 1 at the box office both of those weeks (followed by Monsters Inc. and Oceans 11 -- forgive us, we're a bit behind the times here; Harry Potter is still at No. 7!). Glancing through some of the viewer reviews on Yahoo Japan, it seems that opinions are extreme. Those who like fantasy and/or who like Tolkien's work generally gave the movie five stars, while those who gave the movie one or two stars complained that the movie was an overly-long film strictly for Tolkien fans and that they were unable to follow the story line. Overall, though, the movie has been received quite well here.
Are the books popular?
The entire LOTR series, The Hobbit, The Silmarillion, and books about Tolkien and the movie are prominently on display in most of the book stores I frequent, but I don't know how well they're selling. I did pop over to Amazon.co.jp (our local Amazon.com) and saw that the first volume of the nine-volume paperback version of LOTR is ranked 98th in sales; not bad for an author who was essentially unknown in Japan a couple of months ago. I've got two Japanese friends started on the series, so I'm doing my part to get the word out.
That is a good way of capturing that part of his personality, The part I call the "jock" side of him. He loves the team, and plays for the team, but also loves the close-ups they will do on instant replay when he scores the winning touchdown! A trait not inherently evil in a normal course of events, but a trait that made him dangerous when the tempation of The Ring began to play with his mind.
If and it is a big if, we can disregard the public display of that which is distasteful, I was impressed on one level. He is a higher caliber of actor than most by a long shot. Most guest performers on SNL give such shallow performances on SNL due to the unrehearsed and live nature of it. Yet in that environment HE was able to instantly become completely new characters believably. He did look like a pro among amatuers. I was particularly impressed with the Dickens wig-changing skit near the end. The characters he switched into were not just new wigs, but new characters.
There. Can I just say something positive or do I have to make a value statement about the eeeewwww part? The kiss (when he was playing the Oscar-predictor woman) was quite funny, and I believe, surprised the other actor quite a bit. Do you think that was planned?
You are right; I was totally impressed with his acting ability; head and shoulders above most of the "talent" normally hosting the show. The "Charles Dickens" skit was incredible.
Yes. Let's just leave it at that.:)
And I think they almost did a skit that could have been as good. The low-budget fan show skit, (not the one from Turkey- I didn't understand that one), but the one with the two nerds. That should have spoofed the over-the-top-obsessive LoTR fan clubs and the plethera of exclusively LoTR websites, rather than a general spoof on nerds that are obsessed about every new film...
I watch subtitled anime sometimes and it's quite funny when you can see how badly translated it must be. Not quite All Your Base material, but funny.
We have had yet another March snowfall here... ugh
Just checked and the Yahoo site is back up... but no one was there either.
A Detail-packed bit of News from Imladris: www.lordoftheringsmovie.com about TTT Trailer and other snippets!
News on TTT trailer and highlights
An article at Filmforce reveals that PJ has 15 hours of Helm's Deep footage to play with.
The big battle of The Two Towers promises to be a tour de force.
March 14, 2002 - Entertainment Weekly reports that New Line Cinema is planning to step their Lord of the Rings marketing campaign. Their publicity efforts are already in high gear thanks to the thirteen Oscar nominations that Fellowship of the Ring has garnered. Now, the marketing machine is setting its sights on the August/November video and DVD release as well as the new Two Towers preview that is on its way to theaters.
New Line has confirmed that the special Towers trailer will be three-and-a-half minutes in length. The footage will be tacked onto the end of Fellowship of the Ring, which is still playing in most venues. Director Peter Jackson himself was responsible for choosing and editing the footage that will give audiences a taste of this December's release. "I went through finished F/X shots and plucked the ones that looked really good," Jackson told EW.
Jackson also let slip a few more details about the second Lord of the Rings movie. The feature will have even more effects shots than Fellowship – 600 in all, due in large part to the dramatic battle at Helm's Deep. The climactic showdown between thousands of Elves, Humans, and Orcs dominated much of the year-long filming in New Zealand, and Jackson says that they have between 15 and 20 hours of footage to work with. Jackson is anxious that this event live up to its importance and prominence in Tolkien's original novel. "Helm's Deep is one of Tolkien's most vivid pieces of prose," said Jackson. "You really feel his blood boiling."
Jackson also revealed that he plans to milk the psychological games between Gollum and the two hobbits, Frodo and Sam, for all it's worth. "It's an unholy trinity," Jackson says. "We play psychological games more intensely than the book does."
Among Two Towers elements still being worked on is the ancient and myserious tree-being, Treebeard. Effects specialists are putting the finishing touches on the Ent's computer-generated leaves and bark texture. The character is one of the most unusual of all Tolkien's creations, and will have to be pulled off just right if Treebeard is to be his imposing and impressive self. John Rhys-Davies, who plays the dwarf Gimli, has been chosen to do Treebeard's voice.
And getting back to this fall's Fellowship "special edition" DVD release, Jackson mentioned that fans will get to see the hobbits enjoying some lute music – perhaps some of Tolkien's poetry is being worked into the film that way. He also confirmed the extended Galadriel gift-giving scene and further backstory on the stalwart Aragorn.
I'm wondering, a question for everyone, has LotR had any increased meaning for you recently? I mean, since September 11th, is there anything that speaks to you in a new way? Personally, the whole idea of doing something because it has to be done, even though you don't want to, seems more important to me these days.
You have FReepmail, and Jen and I are in the chat room if you wanna visit....
Glad to hear it. The one complaint hubby had about the movie was that there were no songs done as part of the action; and songs play such a huge role in the books; they sing about everything! The Enya tunes are lovely, but the only glimpse we get of "hobbit music" is the background music at the party; and the only song that's really part of the plot is "Lament For Gandalf." Everything else is background music.
As for the expanded DVD, I have seen the still shots of the cut scenes from Lothlorien, and I am looking forward to that.
Thanks for bringing me back to the positive side!
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