Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.
In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:
Our discussion has been light:
It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog
However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB
Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr
Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog
Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB
Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed
To the very philosophical:
…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla
To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…
…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB
Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog
…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1
Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed
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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom
…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253
Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed
So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.
That is my take as well, he is not a big thinker, but a warrior. He is taken by the ring because he can sense its power, not because he wants to be evil, but because he doesn't reconize that it is evil abd unable to be used for good.
The ring corrupts people using their own ambitions for power or glory, and because of that, Boromir is the most vulnerable and the first to fall. He wants victory for Gondor, and sees the ring as a valuable tool. Although Aragorn wants the same for Gondor, he did not fail the test, because he understood better the essense of that lust. Aragorn "got it".
Perhaps there is a part of Boromir who knows that the return of Aragorn will be the end of the steward's reign. Perhaps he can see that he is not the man Aragorn is, and that his family will be removed from their rule of Gondor. Perhaps he resents that the stewards, even after all these years, are not considered king. Perhaps he thinks he should have been king.
LOL! Now, why didn't I think of that?
While the edges are not sharpened, the tip is dangerously sharp, just as the photo looks.
Dan
No plans for a robe, yet.
Dan
I agree with you! Boromir has always been my favorite character in the first book (and not just because he's played by the yummy Sean Bean!) He proves vulnerable to the lure of the Ring because he so desperately wants to protect his people, he would do anything to achieve that end. You can hear that in his speech at the Council in Rivendell. He admonishes the others in attendance by reminding them that it is Gondor that has worked hard to protect the lands of Middle Earth against Mordor. He wants to use what he perceives as the great power of the Ring against Sauron, not understanding the danger of having it in his possession. Maybe he seems too full of himself, but he knows his father is declining (though he doesn't know why) and he feels that burden falling to him.
Probably. But I think Boromir wasn't really interested in ruling Gondor...just in being a military leader. And he does have a legitimate gripe: Gondor is in a fight for its life and where have you, the king, been all this time?
Why should he be listening to Aragorn immediately upon meeting him? He should just dissolve into an ingratiating, fawning puddle in front of Aragorn immediately upon learning who he is? He has more pride than that, and that is perfectly understandable. His world is being rocked all over the place and he's just trying to stay true to what he sincerely believes and knows to be true.
Another angle that is purely speculation on my part, is that he is worried about his father (Denethor). I think he senses Denethor's strength (of will and moral character) slipping and he desparately wants to be the one to shore it up and help restore the former strength of Gondor. He is feeling a lot of weight on his shoulders from many sources... He is Gondor in miniature, representing the many surging forces that are at work in Gondor at large...
Gondor is kind of like America of today, and Boromir is like a lot of FReepers who don't want to see a bigger picture (Christian view of the world) but devolve into a kind of "America Right or Wrong" mentality....
Perhaps there is a part of Boromir who knows that the return of Aragorn will be the end of the steward's reign. Perhaps he can see that he is not the man Aragorn is, and that his family will be removed from their rule of Gondor. Perhaps he resents that the stewards, even after all these years, are not considered king. Perhaps he thinks he should have been king.
Excellent points, every one spot on, I think.
Very well said. That is what I was trying to say....
Exactly!
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