The New Hobbit Hole

[Overtaxed]

Hmmm....quiet around here. Too quiet. Oh well...might as well have elevenses. Sneak!

[RosieCotton]

Almost time for luncheon here...

[Overtaxed]

Combination elevenses and luncheon. :)

[RosieCotton]

Combination elevenses and luncheon. :)

Is that proper hobbit behavior? How do you get in six meals a day if you go about combining things like that?

[HairOfTheDog]

Yeah... Tom Cruise is an arrogant twerp, but a cute one, in his Top Gun and Cocktail days. His mannerisms remind me of my favorite ex-boyfriend that I just can't hate.

Now.... Humor me, if you will, with this observation about this site, on the "I think Tom Hanks is a nice guy" leading to "but we don't know his politics!" (No Rosie this is not all aimed at your comment :~D)

Bashing liberal ideas here has kindof morphed people from criticizing liberal ideas that we think are bad ideas, into bashing people who have liberal ideas, into bashing liberals who are, of course, completely evil and vile.

I completely disagree with that end result. It is not only wrong, but it is bad salesmanship for the ideas we do have. If I truly believed all liberals are evil, I would have to dump my job where my boss is liberal, dump a lot of my long time friends, and dump a lot of the entertainment I enjoy.

I don't think that liberals, as a class of ordinary people, are evil because they disagree on how much the governement should spend on welfare to the poor, or saving pretty places from development, or even controlling guns. They just disagree, and they mean well, they really do, they just have the wrong ideas on how to solve what they think is a problem. I am talking about the average Joe or Jane liberal American that might tend to vote for Democrats, not the antiwar hippie left fringe types, but the mom in tennis shoes.

We win none of them over to our side by calling them evil. In fact, we play into the part that those whispering in their ears tells them we are. Cold heartless and pious. I can't stand that about this site and the caliber of some of the arguments.

We do win votes to our side with reason. There are reasons the welfare mentality is bad for people, and good reasons why people should be allowed to keep more of their money. And good reasons the government should not be allowed to take people's property and tell them what to do with it. And good reasons why people should be able to own guns.

I can win points with them when I give the reasons. I can't tell you how many people I have moved two steps to the right. That is what we should be doing. Bit by little bit changing hearts and minds. Not laying battle lines and making the other side fear and hate us.

Because when a liberal sees a thread here about an attempt to save a piece of ground, he sees land that is beautiful and wild, and people trying to save it, and then angry and paranoid "my right to piss where I please" posts from conservatives calling anyone who tries to save anything a wacko. The right argument is in there somewhere, but which option looks like a prettier place to be?

There are just a lot of arguments that are so winnable if we didn't turn into the angry spitters that many have become. We are marginalizing ourselves instead of painting a picture of a world that would be better if we won.

< /rant > (sorry Rosie, this was building up long before this morning ;~D)

[RosieCotton]

Evil hobbit sneak >;) (666)

[RosieCotton]

I pretty much agree with you (except on the Tom Cruise thing ;-), and it was kind of what I was referring to with my comment. You said it much better than I could have!

I just get really ticked off with people from "our side" who transform into raving maniacs if you mention you dared to, say, watch a Disney movie or bought from a certain store or think some forms of environmentalism are good things.

[HairOfTheDog]

[whew] Well, I feel better for saying it!

[Sam Cree]

"There are reasons the welfare mentality is bad for people, and good reasons why people should be allowed to keep more of their money. And good reasons the government should not be allowed to take people's property and tell them what to do with it. And good reasons why people should be able to own guns. "

Hi Hair, most of the good reasons, IMO, are that "liberal" (leftist, really) solutions to problems lead us down the road to totalitarianism (to serfdom, as Hayek put it). The leftists that think it through realize that, I think, and either switch, or accept that they are in it for the power, or they decide that other things are more important to them than liberty. Years of tradition and upbringing are difficult to change.

My wife just informed me that a possum is growling at her from inside the garbage can. That explains why the dogs have been barking at the garbage all morning, I guess.

[HairOfTheDog]

I have sat in horror and gawked at environmental threads for the most part, because the arguments quickly devolve into crap about the United Nations and people-hating enviro-wackos and I can't get my head around that. But I have started to post on some of them. Started to try to stake out a little ground that is what I think is the right view on it. I feel like trying to impact the discussion a little.

[HairOfTheDog]

Yes, sometimes the dogs aren't insane after all. They shot old yeller before they saw the cougar he was growling at!

I told a funny story awhile back about a possum I tried to chase out of my yard, do you remember it? (or is it "yeah, hair, you told us that story already")

[Sam Cree]

"think some forms of environmentalism are good things"

The Left does adopt many good causes. It's just that they adopt them in an attempt to use them as levers, to institute their leftist causes.

I do have leftist friends that I care about, they are good, if misguided people.

[rightwingreligiousfanatic]

We win none of them over to our side by calling them evil. In fact, we play into the part that those whispering in their ears tells them we are. Cold heartless and pious. I can't stand that about this site and the caliber of some of the arguments.

We do win votes to our side with reason. There are reasons the welfare mentality is bad for people, and good reasons why people should be allowed to keep more of their money. And good reasons the government should not be allowed to take people's property and tell them what to do with it. And good reasons why people should be able to own guns.

I can win points with them when I give the reasons. I can't tell you how many people I have moved two steps to the right. That is what we should be doing. Bit by little bit changing hearts and minds. Not laying battle lines and making the other side fear and hate us.

Because when a liberal sees a thread here about an attempt to save a piece of ground, he sees land that is beautiful and wild, and people trying to save it, and then angry and paranoid "my right to piss where I please" posts from conservatives calling anyone who tries to save anything a wacko. The right argument is in there somewhere, but which option looks like a prettier place to be?

There are just a lot of arguments that are so winnable if we didn't turn into the angry spitters that many have become. We are marginalizing ourselves instead of painting a picture of a world that would be better if we won.

Aaaaahhhhhh.... Just sitting here basking in the beautiful sunshine and fresh air of your post. And squinting a little bit....

You are exactly right. My sentiments exactly. This is why I can no longer listen to some talk radio hosts. I listen to the Christian music station instead. I want to have hope for the future, and think positively, not be filled with anger and malice and dread. There is entirely too much black and white thinking on this site. And I get sucked up in it myself sometimes.

I think it is because it is so frustrating sometimes to hear the other side dominating the worldview in the mainstream media, which brings forth a strong desire to combat it forcefully. And it is painful, difficult, and sometimes confusing to have to deal with the many shades of gray tinging a particular issue.

But I think you are exactly right about the need to be reasonable and rational in showing them the very good and right reasons for why we believe what we believe. If we don't convert them, I think we at least gain their respect and make them think a little bit themselves about their own "black & white" thinking.

OK, just my own $.02.... [end of rant]

[HairOfTheDog]

But see Sam, that is part of the paranoia that has taken us. People don't want to save a piece of river because they want to use it as some power lever, they do it because they (1) think it will save the salmon, which it wont, and/or (2) they think it is pretty and the critters there are cute, and they think it should be kept green instead of turned into a strip mall. They like driving by and looking at it on their way to work.

Trouble is, they don't own it, and we have to find a balance between setting aside some ground for other creatures besides ourselves on this earth, and the right to buy and use your property as you wish.

[2Jedismom]

Hey all! I've been struggling lately with not spending enough time with my kids and with going to bed too late at night...and I wanted to let you know that I'm going to be backing off of Free Republic for a while. I do want to keep up, but it seems lately things move so fast and I'm busy with schooling the boys that I miss huge sections before I know it!

So, before the Two Towers comes out, I'm going to take some time off of Free Republic as a whole for a while. Even my homeschool threads seem beyond me and I feel lost most the time!

I'll still be part of the Yahoo Hobbit Hole, so if anything is going on that you (in the Hole) think I should know about, somebody give me a heads up!

I'll be back in time for a good discussion of the Two Towers, though...I promise!

[Overtaxed]

Is that proper hobbit behavior? How do you get in six meals a day if you go about combining things like that?

It's like working for Aragorn. They don't know about second breakfast, elevenses, tea time...

[HairOfTheDog]

See, there are a lot of optimists on this site... We just need to be louder and cheerier, and drown out the sour-pusses. I should perhaps start a "Cheerful optimism needed" ping list!

[HairOfTheDog]

Understood 2J! - We all need to have lives. Give us a couple hours here and there, OK? We need you too.

[Overtaxed]

Bashing liberal ideas here has kindof morphed people from criticizing liberal ideas that we think are bad ideas, into bashing people who have liberal ideas, into bashing liberals who are, of course, completely evil and vile.

We could always go back to bashing Elves.

[Overtaxed]

I've been struggling lately with not spending enough time with my kids and with going to bed too late at night...and I wanted to let you know that I'm going to be backing off of Free Republic for a while.

You're going to be playing your Susato! :)