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The New Hobbit Hole

Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog

Welcome to The New Hobbit Hole

Concerning Hobbits

The New Hobbit Chronicles

This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.

In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:

Our discussion has been light:

It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog

However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB

Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr

Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog

Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB

Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed

To the very philosophical:

…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla

To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…

…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB

Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog

…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1

Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed

-----------------------------------------

Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom

…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253

Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed

So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.


TOPICS: Books/Literature; Chit/Chat; Poetry; TV/Movies; The Hobbit Hole
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To: Corin Stormhands
AOTC came out at the 50 cent theater yesterday. Matthew went bursurk when he found out. We're going Sunday.

http://www.buy.com/retail/books/product.asp?sku=40173313&loc=15820
19,641 posted on 08/16/2002 8:21:29 PM PDT by 2Jedismom
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To: HairOfTheDog; 2Jedismom; JenB; Bear_in_RoseBear; Lucius Cornelius Sulla; Overtaxed; g'nad; ksen; ...
Well folkses. I'm calling it a night.

It looks like the quadruple precious will not be mine this time around. And, there are some things that I must tend to.

Keep it secret. Keep it safe.

See you next week.

19,642 posted on 08/16/2002 8:21:35 PM PDT by Corin Stormhands
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To: Corin Stormhands
Night Corin. Stay safe. Don't forget...unplug the coffee pot before you leave!
19,643 posted on 08/16/2002 8:23:32 PM PDT by 2Jedismom
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To: HairOfTheDog
I just realized (not that even makes any difference to me) but AOTC and FOTR Ext.Ed. are being released the same day. November 12th.
19,644 posted on 08/16/2002 8:32:31 PM PDT by 2Jedismom
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To: HairOfTheDog
How is how the hobbits got the knives (swords) of the Westernesse important to the story later? or where does it matter that they are knives of the Westernesse? - I never saw these as outwardly magical weapons... Fine weapons certainly, but not magical like Sting and the Elven blades...

Merry needs his Westernesse blade to stab the Witch King.

So passed the sword of the Barrow-downs, work of Westernesse. But glad would he have been to know its fate who wrought it slowly long ago in the North-kingdom when the Dunedain were young, and chief among their foes was the dread realm of Angamar and its sorcerer king. No other blade, not though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will.

19,645 posted on 08/16/2002 8:35:42 PM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: Overtaxed
You think that is a real effect, or an emotional one? I always took that as somewhat figurative, like the emotional slap of a new foe bearing the weapon of someone you long despised...

Is there really magic to the knives? Were the weapons of the Westernesse blessed by something other than skill? I just never thought of them that way.
19,646 posted on 08/16/2002 8:59:58 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: 2Jedismom
AOTC and FOTR Ext.Ed. are being released the same day. November 12th.

Maybe if you buy both you can get a discount. I would be afraid to get my wife something like a lawnmower as a present!

19,647 posted on 08/16/2002 9:21:30 PM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla
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To: HairOfTheDog; Scott from the Left Coast; Corin Stormhands
"It is possible that I am reading more into it than I should, but as I have now watched it enough times to border on frame-by-frame memory, I see more "reflection, travelogue, lore and character development" than I did at first.

I feel pretty strongly that the movie exudes the same sense of ancient but very real history as does the book. And the same terrible sense of desparate struggle against almost overwhelming evil.

The book pulls this off partly because of JRRT's skill as a writer, but partly because of all the background material that went into it: over 1000 pages of background history in the Silmarillion, the invented languages, the Norse sagas that were inspiration.

Jackson pulls it off because he has taken the trouble to truly understand Tolkien and what he achieved and because he was completely dedicated to bringing to life Tolkien's story and Tolkien's Middle Earth. And because he and the entire production seem to have given an all out, 110% effort to make it happen. When you read that every object in the film was made from scratch in an effort to create a world that no one in the audience would recognize, that "Hobbiton" was built a year before filming to give the plant life time to lose its new look, you begin to realize the lengths they went to.

19,648 posted on 08/16/2002 9:48:54 PM PDT by Sam Cree
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
I would be afraid to get my wife something like a lawnmower as a present!"

The very thought kind of stuns me.

Though once I gave my wife a toolbox (on which I had inscribed "Mom's Tools") full of tools for either her bithday or Channukah, I forget which. But she loved it and still has them handy. She's kind of mechanically inclined though, for a woman, and enjoys being able to fix things around the house.

19,649 posted on 08/16/2002 9:57:58 PM PDT by Sam Cree
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To: Sam Cree; Lucius Cornelius Sulla; 2Jedismom
My mother once got a boat anchor and 50 feet of anchor chain. The box weighed like 200 pounds, which was really funny Christmas morning. She was actually quite amused. We needed it.
19,650 posted on 08/16/2002 10:05:55 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: Overtaxed; HairOfTheDog; Scott from the Left Coast
Merry needs his Westernesse blade to stab the Witch King.

I have faith that PJ will fill the gap somehow. With the care he has taken so far I can't see him botching a critical element of the story like that.

19,651 posted on 08/16/2002 10:11:44 PM PDT by ksen
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To: HairOfTheDog; Sam Cree
I went to Sam's and picked out my mower. It's a real whopper! We assembled it in the livingroom and Steve actually took pictures of me and the boys standing with it!

I just like to mow!

I have a drawer of tools too...mostly medium-sized screwdrivers of different types and a hammer and a tape measure. Some nails.
19,652 posted on 08/16/2002 10:11:51 PM PDT by 2Jedismom
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To: 2Jedismom
Well, as a bachelorette farmer, I have a pretty nice set of tools myself... I dug every post hole on this place and put in all the fencing entirely by myself! I have power tools and saws and things! I wish I'd a had a man to appreciate for doing it, but at least it was done right! I didn't have to point and frown at anything.
19,653 posted on 08/16/2002 10:21:34 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: HairOfTheDog
In fact, I got my new manure cart for Christmas last year... they are a bit expensive and I was thrilled! And my gas powered weed wacker with the blade attachment.
19,654 posted on 08/16/2002 10:23:21 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: HairOfTheDog
Question: How is how the hobbits got the knives (swords) of the Westernesse important to the story later? or where does it matter that they are knives of the Westernesse? - I never saw these as outwardly magical weapons... Fine weapons certainly, but not magical like Sting and the Elven blades... Correct my memory?

These were enchanted blades, blades that were specifically made to fight the witch-king of the north (they were obtained in the barrow downs, which were graves of Westernesse warriors). The Witch-King becomes, in this later age, the Captain of the Nazgul. Only a blade such as this can destroy the bodiless Nazgul. And it is that blade with which Merry strikes the decisive blow in destroying the Captain of the Nazgul in the fields of Pelennor. That those swords came from the barrow downs and were enchanted swords of the Westernesse, made specifically to slay the witch-king and his armies, is critical to this later battle.

19,655 posted on 08/16/2002 10:25:51 PM PDT by Scott from the Left Coast
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To: Overtaxed
I should read further before posting...you had it covered...oh, well, one closer to 20,000.
19,656 posted on 08/16/2002 10:28:08 PM PDT by Scott from the Left Coast
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To: HairOfTheDog; 2Jedismom
You guys are OK.

My daughter's alway's been pretty much of a tomboy, she fixes stuff also. Never carried a purse. I saw her with one the other day (she's 19) and I nearly fell over I was so surprised. I'm not sure she even knows what to do with it.

19,657 posted on 08/16/2002 10:35:57 PM PDT by Sam Cree
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To: Scott from the Left Coast
Were those daggers actually "enchanted" or were they just unbelievably well crafted (like, say, a Stradivarius), perhaps by some lost ancient art or skill?
19,658 posted on 08/16/2002 10:38:46 PM PDT by Sam Cree
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To: HairOfTheDog
I got my new manure cart for Christmas last year

Now I am stunned! By the way, do you use it only for cleaning up after the ponies, or are you a big deal gardener (or farmer) too!

19,659 posted on 08/16/2002 10:40:58 PM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla
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To: All
Good night All
19,660 posted on 08/16/2002 10:43:37 PM PDT by Sam Cree
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