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The New Hobbit Hole

Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog

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To: Overtaxed
Riding against the Black Riders doesn't seem like the thing the real Arwen would do.

Rivendell, where the she-elves are manly and the he-elves...well, let's not go there...But we can go to 18,000...or should we?

17,941 posted on 08/10/2002 11:32:33 AM PDT by Corin Stormhands
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To: Scott from the Left Coast
in a crowded theatre, with a full bladder...er, another story...

My son was still 12 when we saw it the first time. He wanted the "Big Gulp" size. By the time we went to the theater to see it a third time he said, "Um, can I just have some M&Ms?"

17,942 posted on 08/10/2002 11:35:53 AM PDT by Corin Stormhands
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To: Corin Stormhands; g'nad
Rivendell, where the she-elves are manly and the he-elves...

Perhaps we need g'nad in on this discussion.

17,943 posted on 08/10/2002 11:36:20 AM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: WFTR; HairOfTheDog; All
Sadly, I agree with many of the items on your list. I just don't let them bother me. A few, however, aren't quite the way you think. For instance....

. Gandalf was not afraid to touch the ring when Bilbo gave it up in Bag End. When Bilbo dropped it, Gandalf quickly picked it up, put it in the envelope, and put it on the mantel. He was afraid of temptation, but he wasn't silly about it.

The Ring was in Bilbo's pocket, in an envelope, not just loose. Gandalf touched only the envelope, just as in the movie.

Aragorn did not force himself on Frodo at the inn. Instead, Aragorn had to prove himself as someone who could be trusted.

True, but Aragorn does just show up, uninvited, in the hobbits' room. Frodo is quite uncomfortable with him there for a bit.

Arwen did not meet Aragorn and the hobbits on the road west of Rivendell. No matter how much political correctness screams for a female character riding a horse and appearing to take part in an action scene, putting her in this position was wrong. Political correctness should have been spanked and told to go do the laundry. Aragorn was met by the sons of Elrond.

First part yes, that was silly, second part no. Aragorn was met by Glorfindel, not one of Elrond's sons. Arwen showing up was quite silly, but it does make sense in reducing the number of small characters floating around.

The Leavetaking was cut way, way down - supposedly it will be restored in the extended version. In any case, since the fellowship starts wearing elf-cloaks and leaf-brooches, we can assume it happened off screen.

No one talked to Frodo about Gollum until the river trip, and that conversation was with Aragorn and not Gandalf.

The very powerful and moving "pity and destiny and fate" speech was moved to Moria and also served to show us that Gollum was after them. Personally I think it came out pretty well. You wouldn't want those great lines just removed, right? Jackson did a lot of "cut and paste" with dialogue, beefing up scenes that on film seem skimpy, and cutting down on those that were long. It's just the translation from one medium to another requires some changes. For istance the words that Boromir, in the movie, speaks on Caradhras, about the ring being so small a thing, are taken from the end, where he tries to take the Ring.

I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the movie, and I hope you don't think this is an attack on you, but I do disagree with some of your list.

Waving to my hobbit friends - off to work in a few, but this is a good thing to do before!

17,944 posted on 08/10/2002 11:37:13 AM PDT by JenB
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To: JenB
"Sneak!" X 53
17,945 posted on 08/10/2002 11:41:41 AM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: Overtaxed
"Doh" Can't do math today!
17,946 posted on 08/10/2002 11:43:30 AM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: Overtaxed
Hmm, we are not good at sneakies?
17,947 posted on 08/10/2002 11:47:33 AM PDT by JenB
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To: JenB
Not today, apparently.
17,948 posted on 08/10/2002 11:50:32 AM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: Corin Stormhands; Overtaxed
Regarding Arwen, I can't even consider it as anything so crude as "feminist pander" either. The word just doesn't fit, it seems so alien to anything in the movie that I have a hard time answering it. To say her being there in any way panders to some feminist agenda sounds to me like knee-jerk paranoia.

I think PJ brought her in to start the love story. No other reason. I don't forget that we are talking about a New Zealand movie maker who is not sitting here in America being fed daily doses of NOW versus the world. Nor do I think he seems like the kind of guy that would dig NOW. Perhaps it is our glasses that are tinted and not his. He seems a bit too laid back and hobbity for their tastes. Maybe he did what he did because he thinks women in the audience would like to see it, maybe he likes the romance himself. Maybe he likes pretty women who can ride and carry swords. Maybe, just maybe, he isn't threatened by it nor thinks it fights some issue larger than his story. Maybe he thought it was cool. (I just wish her line was better at the river)
17,949 posted on 08/10/2002 11:51:37 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: HairOfTheDog
Morning (or is it afternoon over there yet?) Hair!

I don't have a problem with PJ playing up the romance part. I just think it's a pander because it was out of character for Arwen. I guess PJ thought that the women in the audience couldn't wait for Eowyn to show up!
17,950 posted on 08/10/2002 11:59:40 AM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: Overtaxed
I just think it's a pander because it was out of character for Arwen.

Ummm....the traipsing around in the wilderness with the Black Riders part was out of character.

17,951 posted on 08/10/2002 12:01:41 PM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: Overtaxed; HairOfTheDog; Corin Stormhands; JenB
What's this? Hobbits and Dwarves and Elf-Friends (and Elf-Bashers) all here on a Saturday afternoon?

There must be a Precious lying around somewhere!
17,952 posted on 08/10/2002 12:06:48 PM PDT by Bear_in_RoseBear
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To: Scott from the Left Coast
I think the people who enjoy it more the 2nd or 3rd time they see it are indeed the ones who know the books by heart. The first time through, on the one hand I was too much focused on measuring the book against the movie worrying that it wouldn't be right. At the same time I was overwhelmed by visuals that were too big to take in. When I got out I was exhausted!

The second time through I was less worried about the former, and could study the visuals again and look for the subtleties. The third time through, I almost got it all. Then I saw it a couple dozen more times!
17,953 posted on 08/10/2002 12:07:20 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: Overtaxed
I just wonder if we aren't assuming PJ gave it any thought at all that Arwen needed to pander to any agenda. He may have just thought it was cool. We may be seeing agenda where there is none. A common FR trait, don't you think?
17,954 posted on 08/10/2002 12:10:32 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: Bear_in_RoseBear
What's this? Hobbits and Dwarves and Elf-Friends (and Elf-Bashers) all here on a Saturday afternoon?

Well the weeds I whacked last weekend are dead, the garden has dried out for the most part (very depressing) and it doesn't take that long to cut okra so I'm just hanging out watching The Movie again.

17,955 posted on 08/10/2002 12:12:52 PM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: WFTR
While I disagree with your analysis, I appreciate the thoughtful response.

You're welcome!

I still believe that Arwen was placed in that position to pander to feminism

I disagree with you here... I think she was put in that position to introduce the love interest. But anyway... my point was, no movie can be 100% faithful to the book it was based on. They all have to take some liberties, if only because of the differences in portraying a story on screen as opposed to on the printed page. The first time I watched the movie, I deliberately withheld my judgement, just waiting for something to feel wrong, something to betray the spirit of the books. For me, nothing did.

I mentioned Starship Troopers because it's a perfect example of how badly Hollyweird can butcher a good book. I won't go into detail, because there's a Precious lying around, but basically the only thing carried over from the book to the movie were the characters' names. Everything else, including events, motivations, even the basic theme of the book, was discarded for the director's "vision". When faced with the possibility of that being done to LOTR, I feel the fans got off quite lucky.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree! :)

17,956 posted on 08/10/2002 12:14:33 PM PDT by Bear_in_RoseBear
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To: Overtaxed
Just now past noon here. I am going to be packing up in a couple hours and heading to the beach house for dinner. Dad and his lady are cooking up some steaks. Red meat off the bone two days in a row? - Neat!
17,957 posted on 08/10/2002 12:15:19 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: Overtaxed
Well the weeds I whacked last weekend are dead

That's good, isn't it? Myself, I hate zombie weeds.

17,958 posted on 08/10/2002 12:16:20 PM PDT by Bear_in_RoseBear
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To: HairOfTheDog

He may have just thought it was cool.

Or maybe he was running out of Elves to send. If you're not going to have Glorfindel or the sons of Elrond, it narrows it down to Elrond or Arwen. So Elrond would send his own daughter into danger.......:)

17,959 posted on 08/10/2002 12:23:58 PM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: Bear_in_RoseBear
That's good, isn't it?

Yes, that's good! I was going to plant some stuff but it's so dry I don't know when it'll come up.

17,960 posted on 08/10/2002 12:29:10 PM PDT by Overtaxed
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