Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.
In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:
Our discussion has been light:
It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog
However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB
Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr
Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog
Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB
Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed
To the very philosophical:
…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla
To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…
…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB
Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog
…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1
Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed
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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom
…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253
Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed
So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.
Not exactly right. The Eldar, or the highest "race," of the Elves traveled, following the summons of the Valar, from the East of Middle Earth to its West, where most of them took ship (or floating island) to Aman, where the Valar dwelt.
Many millenia later, most of the Noldor, one of the Eldarin tribes, rebel against the Valar and return to Middle Eart to get revenge on Melkor/Morgoth. (Not a particularly good idea, as it turns out.)
Some of the Noldor also wanted to be rulers and not under the tutelage of the Valar anymore. One of these was Galadriel. Such desire was not necessarily evil in and of itself, althought the means used to achieve it certainly was.
Tolkien's conception of Galadriel changed throughout his life, so depending on which period of his writings you access, she is either denied permission to return to the West at the end of the First Age, or she refuses to return. In either case, her long rebellion against authority ends when she refuses to take The Ring.
BTW, not all the Elves went to Aman. Most of the Elves Legolas' family (and Galadriel) rules over are of this category. They are not nearly as high in moral and mental stature as the Eldar. Seemingly they don't differ tremdnsouly from Men, except in their longevity.
Similarly, the Numenoreans at their height were almost equal to the Eldar in power and status, except again for their lifespan. To me this indicates that Tolkien saw little difference in the raw potential of Men and Elves. The Elves mostly developed greater power because they had more time to do so in.
Even the Elves that had never been to Aman are fated to "fade" as the Third Age progresses. Tolkien implies that this is due mostly to the wearing effect the fire of their immortal spirit has on their bodies, which are made of the perishable stuff of Middle Earth. Only in The West can the Elves continue to live without this fading.
Although Elrond and Galadriel both imply that this "fading" is already underway, with a strong implication that it has been stopped or slowed during the Third Age by the power of the Three Rings (which the Elves can use as long as Sauron doesn't hold the One). With the destruction of the One Ring, the Three also lose their powers, so the fading will accelerate greatly.
Why doesn't Saruman steal his Ring from Gandalf when he is holding him prisoner? Isn't he aware that Gandalf holds one of the Three? Wouldn't Gandalf have told his superior sometime over the previous thousand years? Or is he unable to take it away against Gandalf's will?
BTW, how about that auto-homing staff of Gandalf? Saruman takes it away, and he doesn't have it when he escapes on eagle back. But then he has it again in Rivendell.
He presumably loses it again on the Bridge, but then he has it again (also presumably his sword Orcrist) in TTT.
As for why Saruman didn't take the ring, I wondered if there might be some secrecy surrounding Gandalf's possession of the ring. At the end of RotK, there's some mention that only then was Gandalf actually wearing the ring openly. So perhaps Saruman didn't know Gandalf possessed it.
Are you here? I am hanging out in the chatroom...
Does anybody remember seeing a ring on Gandalf's hand? There is a closeup of them at the point he's hanging on at the Bridge.
I saw the movie again last night to see the trailer and I actually saw the famous car (or whatever it was) in the cornfield scene. It was definitely something moving.
I guess I'll have to see the movie for the tenth time and watch Gandalf's handses. Darn!
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Now... how do I move this forum to appear above Breaking News...
To everyone who was debating before, there is no Denethor in the trailer because, well, Denethor isn't in Two Towers. At all. Or at least, not in the book!
Wow. Thanks!
Besides, I'm a hobbity kind person, so this makes me happy. And no one has to worry about mispelling 'Tolkien'. Anyone seen the trailer again? New impressions or anything?
At FreeRepublic, JohnRob=Illuvatar. Or is that JimRob. By the way, it looks like our pics that aren't displaying aren't going to, at least according to Texaggie79 on another thread:
When will we be able to link fromthe FR image site server again?
770 posted on 3/30/02 8:02 AM Eastern by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: RedBloodedAmerican
John turned it off because that image server is only for captioning on that forum. He said in the future he will put up a photo album section.
799 posted on 3/30/02 2:31 PM Eastern by Texaggie79
So it looks like are pictures are going to have to be moved. One of you picture poster types are going to have to do it.
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