Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.
In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:
Our discussion has been light:
It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title! post 252 - HairOfTheDog
However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie post 506 - JenB
Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) post 1001 - BibChr
Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. post 1011 HairOfTheDog
Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive post 1007 - JenB
Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant? post 1024 Overtaxed
To the very philosophical:
Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above Lucius Cornelius Sulla
To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters
Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them post 1536 - JenB
Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt post 1538 - HairOfTheDog
I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it post 1548 - Penny1
Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock post 2401 Overtaxed
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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire post 2506 - 2Jedismom
Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol post 2516 - carton253
Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol) post 2519 Overtaxed
So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole
; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.
WOO HOO!
Then was it over? - hehehe no not quite yet! - but it felt that fast! - I second the motion for finding the first download or captured stills. I don't care what I have to sell to get it.
-Aragorn picking up the leaf clasp... perfect way to start.
-The three running... Takes me back to that place in the book.
-Shot of the orcs running - and then Merry and Pippin.
-Shot of Pippin against tree - blinks TREEBEARD!
-The appearance of Gandalf the white... loved the buildup with Legolas, Aragorn and Gimli readying their weapons...
-There were audible gasps when Gandalf appeared. - Wish I could have captured what he said.
-Eowyn the angst-ridden teary eyed, and then sparring with Aragorn... playing hard to get? - not gonna work honey.
-Aragorn appears to just bust in to the Golden Hall... looks like a man on a mission.
-Good footage of Theoden and Wormtongue
-Happy hug scene with Aragorn and Arwen
-Eowyn was beautiful Jen. She is a very changeable person. Both those older-looking photos and the young pretty thing are both her in different moods.
-Shots of Saruman... voice over of Gandalf talking about the Two Towers - Orthanc and Barad Dur
-voice over Still Gandalf speaking of/to Aragorn... he fears what you will become. Great shots of Aragorn looking tough and worthy.
-Heartbreak at the marshes... Frodo looks so tired... "the ring is getting heavier".
-Galadriel speaking that the quest will take his life
-Helm's Deep battle looked great... very big, very epic
-Brief glimpse of Faramir
-Gollum... stunning visual... the voice seemed perfect but awfully loud... maybe just the shock factor of hearing it...
Audible cheers - All eight or nine of us in the theater! - Begging the folk upstairs to rewind it and let us see it again..
Rushing home to talk to you all! All for now - not even proofreading!
There are, you know, like, spoilers...I had a huge panic attack when the last scene faded to black. Within those 2 seconds, I think I lost 5 years of my life with the worry and angst I went through. I just became convinced that there would be no trailer. Come on people, when you've seen the movie more than 7 times or 20, you become so used to seeing the last scene fade to black and the words "Directed by Peter Jackson" come on along with the credits.
And then, it all changed...
Coming This Christmas
Oh dear Lord, I began to hyperventilate. I have never hyperventilated unless it had to do with LOTR. The only other time I experienced such a severe emotional attack was when Howard Shore won Best Score at the Oscars.
Then, it began...
I'm not going to go through it with you all since enough people have posted synopsises. What I will post are my thoughts throughout the trailer:
1) I could not get over the fact that these characters were finally doing something different. Anyone else have that impression? For example, Aragorn only wears black in Fellowship, but in the TTT trailer, he's seen wearing some red and gold. Little things like that that you've become used to seeing the characters do and now all of a sudden, they're doing brand new things!
2) Aragorn looks good. If the TTT trailer imples anything, it will be a much expanded Aragorn part. I'm looking forward to his 'cleaning up'. Even from the trailer, you can note the change: The first shot is of Aragorn picking up the brooch looking like the weather-worn Ranger he has been for years, but as the trailer progresses, he begins to look better (ie: good hair, fancy clothes) but the biggest change is in his face. He no longer looks 'humble' or 'useless' as he did in Fellowship. He walks with confidence in the trailer; an air of 'don't mess with me' and triumph. The best example of this is when Saruman speaks of Gandalf find the king of Men and there follows immediately a shot of Aragorn throwing open two doors (of Meduseld?) wearing red and black and an expression that says, "I have arrived".
3) Gollum is exactly as I'd pictured him except lighter. Always thought he was darker; not black, but a deep red/brown colour. But his voice is sensational. Dead on. Good job, Andy Serkis.
4) I actually liked trailer Arwen. She looks beautiful.
5) Eowyn is marvelous. Precisely as I had envisioned her. Miranda Otto was a fine choice. What I liked most about her: Her freckles. They're such a human touch, giving her face a 'flawed' look perfectly suited to humans and a direct contrast of Arwen's flawless skin. Plus Miranda can fight.
6) What I didn't like: The look Aragorn gives Eowyn as they're sword fighting. He seems more than just disinterested in her. Rather turned on, or at least interested. Consider this with a shot almost right after of Arwen looking lifeless on a bed and it would not be unreasonable to wonder if PJ might be alluding to something regarding the three. Aragorn tempted by Eowyn? Say it isn't so! LOTR is not, I repeat NOT a soap opera!
7) The recitiing of the poem by Theoden is marvelous and works perfectly in the trailer as a substitute for a narrator. The lines correspond more or less tot he scenes being shone which is great.
8) We get more of that Last Alliance bigbattle syncronization that I love. You know, when the armies march in perfect unison, the arrows are fired at the same time. I like the shots of Aragorn standing in the centre in command.
9) I also love the 2-3 shots of Legolas standing to Aragorn's right. If I may be allowed to speculate, PJ seems to be implying that Legolas and Aragorn's relationship becomes 'closer', re: more developed, in TTT which I am all for.
10) I have no complaints about the Legolas shots. Few? Yes. But the baby blue close-up is wonderful. As are the single shots; one of him on the look-out, one right before Gandalf's arrival.
11) Galadriel looks much less sinister even if she appears for 1.5 s in the trailer. She looks very sad and I am glad. Gives her a human touch.
12) Treebeard, what little I saw of him, is precisely what I imagined. I'm so glad the crew didn't turn him into a male Grandmother Willow from Pocahontas.
13) Can you believe I didn't realize until right before it happened, that that pause and the drawing of the weapons by the three hunters was the scene where Gandalf the White appears? Luckily I realized it rigth before the wizard appeared.
14) And now to the thing that stuck in my mind, that I can't forget, that I am so absolutely looking forward to that I wasn't before the trailer and now must see in TTT: GANDALF THE WHITE:
- He is even more beautiful than I imagined.
- I can't get over the change in him.
- Gandalf the Grey was so humbled, so shaggy. Dark rough robes, bushy hair, bushy beard. Like a magical elderly grandfather.
- Gandalf the White is cleaned up. His hair...I can't get over his hair. It's straight, it's unbelievably shiny, it's WHITE! Just like Saruman's, but it looks so different on him it looks better! And his robes are even better than Saruman's: Sparkling, bejeweled and brilliant in the way that only pure white can be. He was stunning.
- The shot of him riding into battle in Helm's Deep was absolutely amazing. The glow, the aura, the power around him is magnificent.
- And the change in his demeanor is perfect. God bless Sir Ian McKellen. Gone is the humility; this Gandalf would have swept his arm and be done with the Balrog and every single orc in Moria including Tiny Elvis. This Gandalf don't take crap from no one. You don't ask the questions; HE asks them and he'll give you the answers if HE feels like it. I wanted to go down on my knees and praise the Lord I had gotten to see Gandalf the White.
15) Helm's Deep is amazing, although more stony than I imagined and more grey. I had imagined the rocks a fiery red/brown. But I'm not complaining. The orcs are fabulous...More menacing than any you've seen in Fellowship which helps make the battle more believable. These orcs will not be so easily defeated.
16) The dark rain at Helm's Deep is perfect. Absolutely perfect.
17) Isn't Rohan supposed to be greener?
18) Something tells me Frodo and Sam will be a little shotshifted in TTT. If the trailer is any indication, I think the majority of the emphasis will be placed on book three. The fact that Shelob was moved also supports this. I dunno if I like that but I suppose I can understand it.
19) Don't understand the flames in the Dead Marshes but will wait until movie before deciding.
All in all, I loved it except for the potential Aragorn/Eowyn/Arwen triangle. What purists feel about Arwen replacing Glorfinidel is what I feel about this times ten. I hope to God PJ didn't decide to have Aragorn feel anymore than pity for Eowyn. Having him tempted is just not right.
Oh yes, Faramir is gorgeous. Even my non-Tolkienite friends saw the resemblance between him and Boromir. Wenham was perfectly cast. Eomund has hair to die for, Theoden isn't how I imagined but I like his presence all the same and I don't recall Wormtongue.
I think there is a lot of panicking and gnashing of teeth over the lack of hobbitses in the trailer. But I'm quite sure that's because much of the Frodo and Sam scenes are with Gollum, whose scenes aren't really finished , and Merry's and Pippin's are with Treebeard, who really isn't finished...
Okay, off to church I go...I am looking forward to reading others' impressions when I get back!
/john
/john
Here is hoping that Shore goes nuts and brings in Basil Polederius and Led Zeppelin as advisors to the next soundtrack.
Methane gas?
I'm so glad you all could write down what you thought, because I can't even think straight! I just got home about 15 minutes ago...will I calm down and be able to tell you what I think? All I can think is MOREMOREMOREMORE!!!
I like this quote posted by that reviewer I posted... It is fun to see them doing something new after all this time, isn't it?
I thought that was Denethor? Wasn't that Faramir standing behind him?
I don't know. . .it went so fast that I'm in shock.
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