Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.
In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:
Our discussion has been light:
It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog
However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB
Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr
Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog
Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB
Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed
To the very philosophical:
…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla
To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…
…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB
Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog
…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1
Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed
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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom
…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253
Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed
So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.
Do you happen to know where in the letters this appears?
Post #1103
SB:
Bean as Boromir
"Boromir shows him there are good things to be found in man."
VM: "I envy his certainty to some degree."
SB: "...because you are man, and a certain aspect of knowledge is ignorance."
VM: "I think that is something that Tolkien spoke about. He said too much knowledge can be dangerous. Characters like Elrond, or Gandalf, or Galadriel or Aragorn, who have the benefit of this overall view of the history of Middle-Earth, are very wary about telling anyone what to do. People have to come to the right decision of their own free will. The most precious thing in Middle-Earth is not the Ring, but the free choice of the individual. The evil of the Ring is that it takes away anybody's individuality. You lose yourself. It tempts you by saying that you will become greater, but in fact, you become nothing."
I hope it doesn't die out, this thread has been a real treat.
Ditto!, the chat room has had a major toll on this thread. Lots of time nothing is happening. The major participants and they know who they are, seem to be missing a lot. HEY you all .... you are missed. Come back.
One of the great things about this thread is the flow of topics and side stuff along with Tolkien. It is like any great combination that works. Make big changes and it often falls apart. i.e. as happens with hit bands, people like Joel (Northern Exposure), Shelly Long (Cheers),David Carruso (NYPF Blue), Jimmy Smidt (NYPD Blue), etc.; ... and with clubs a few leave and ... soon it sorta dissolves. You get the idea. MO
I've changed my strategy to skimming letters written after publication of ROTK. I found this in Letter 165(p. 221) to Houghton Mifflin Co.:
Nothing has astonished me more (and I think my publishers) than the welcome given to The Lord of the Rings. But it is, of course, a constant source of consolation and pleasure to me. And, I may say, a piece of singular good fortune, much envied by some of my contemporaries....envied by some of my contemporaries
Nyah,nyah!! (shameless goating!)
Hmmmm.....Hair,what's happening in the chat room during the day when I'm not there?
That's "shameless gloating" Baaaaa! LOL
I thank you for bringing in some new good content to this thread, and there will hopefully be a flurry of reviews and discussions HERE about the trailer on Friday, where all can share and look back on it.
If we don't keep the good content flowing, then OT just starts bashing elves again. I think we are approaching what may be a long doldrum period between real events, so keep the snippets of news coming! We have to keep OT busy!
Okay, Gandalf. You knew that all Rings of Power are dangerous to mortals and you let Bilbo keep one for all these years. Why did it take you so long to look into it? Wasn't the grant money coming in fast enough?
This is not the end....
Also, didn't Saruman kept telling everyone that the one ring was lost, that it was probably at the bottom of the sea?
Here's a question...did Gandalf and the others know that the ring of power was so corruptive to the one who carried it from the start? Or did they only discover that aspect of the ring when they realized what it had done to Gollum and to Bilbo?
Yeah, that ought to do the trick. ;) Throw in a few more of Aragorn, and this thread should be hopping! Of course, you'll have to include some Eowyn, Arwen and Galdriel photos too, if you don't want to lose all the guys. ;)
At first, Gandalf didn't know that it was the One Ring, but he did know that it was a ring of power and he told Frodo in "Shadow of the Past" that all rings of power were perilous. IMHO he should have started tracking the ring's history as soon as he knew that Bilbo had it. Instead, he waited for Bilbo to show signs of "evilringitis." Perhaps I should cut Gandalf some slack for listening to Saruman "The White" aka cheese-eating traitor monkey! :)
Does anyone have a timeline handy? Could Gandalf and "Thorongil" have been fighting the Corsairs of Umbar during Bilbo's ownership
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