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To: Cronos
This son, Megapenthes, was born to him of a bondwoman, for heaven vouchsafed Helen no more children after she had borne Hermione, who was fair as golden Venus herself.

Yes. So please explain this to me in context of Helen being a dark african woman.

190 posted on 07/21/2026 8:51:14 AM PDT by for-q-clinton
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To: for-q-clinton
for-q-clinton This son, Megapenthes, was born to him of a bondwoman, for heaven vouchsafed Helen no more children after she had borne Hermione, who was fair as golden Venus herself.

Another one:

So he spoke, and presently came golden-throned Dawn. Up to them then came Menelaus, good at the war-cry, rising from his couch from beside fair-tressed Helen.

Very good -- did you read the Odyssey? it's available for free online on project gutenberg - or an audiobook version for free on librivox. And it is surprisingly easy to read. I would strongly recommend it

Now to your points:

  1. Megapenthes was the son of Menelaus but NOT the son of Helen
  2. Hermione is "fair as golden Venus"
Hillside has a free course on the Odyssey that I would urge you to attend - I am too and I find it adding to what I knew.

Now the word "fair" is a very interesting word that has changed meaning over time (like the word "monstrous" or even "gay" (the latter always pains me when I read a PG Wodehouse book from the 1930s - 1950s and gay meant specifically happy, free from worry)

anyhoo - in older English, the word "fair" was the standard word for "attractive" or "lovely" (as in the phrase "the fairest of them all"). Samuel Butler, who translated this specific version of The Odyssey in 1900, used "fair" in its traditional sense of "beautiful."

Now this I'm cribbing from the Hillside course -- in Homer’s original Greek text, Book 4, Line 14), the phrase used to describe Hermione is ".ἣ εἶδος ἔχε χρυσέης Ἀφροδίτης." -- which translates LITERALLY as "who had the form of golden Aphrodite" -- the word "skin" or "complexion" does not appear in the Greek line at all

Aphrodite's primary attribute in Greek literature is her irresistible beauty and charm, not a specific modern racial or skin tone classification. In ancient Greek poetry, the goddess is frequently called "golden" (chryseē). This is a divine epithet used to represent her radiance, majesty, immortality, and preciousness—much like how the sun, crowns, and divine objects are called "golden." It is not a literal description of human skin pigmentation.

similarly samuel butler in "fair tressed" meant "beautiful haired"

i fully agree with you that changing the race of known historical figures like Cleopatra (an inbred Macedonian) or medieval European royalty is incorrect and yes, I also agree with you that putting an African woman as Helen seems out of place - but for the latter, it is not completely out of line with the Homeric epic -- come on, this talks of his voyages to lotus-eating people,to women with feet of birds, to Hades etc. - this is not something to get riled about

I got more riled with Gladiator 1 and 2, with Braveheart and with 300 for being utterly historically inaccurate.

192 posted on 07/22/2026 2:40:59 AM PDT by Cronos (Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.)
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