Thank you for the reply, and the analogy. It’s very helpful.
And, again, I have zero love for Iran’s leaders. The good people of Iran, my heart goes out to them. I know a few who immigrated to America; good people, and no love lost for their former leaders.
I tend to be an absolutist in terms of “just war” and self-defense. Saint Thomas Aquinas laid it out very nicely. A big reason why I like Aquinas (aside from him being right….!….) is that it keeps me (or, if we followed him, the USA) from getting enmeshed in forever wars and foreign entanglements.
Following Aquinas, however, restricts my desire for vengeance. Do I want to annihilate Iran for 444 days and Beirut? Yup. But just as I don’t support reparations for the sins of yesteryear, I can’t turn around and say after 47 years let’s wipe out Iran finally.
I recognize fully that I’m usually in the minority, in part because My Tribe doesn’t really subscribe to Aquinas’ approach and views. And, again, that’s ok. We agree on 95% of everything else.
Using your analogy, I liken it to living in Pennsylvania and a cottage I owned in Mississippi getting taken over by a cult with some relatives in the cottage. After 444 days the relatives come back to PA. The cult take over the government of Mississippi. They then bombs a second home of mine in Illinois and kills hundreds of relatives. For whatever reason, I never retaliated. But as far as I’m concerned, the cult is a mortal enemy. They’re dead meat if they cross into PA.
Over the ensuing 45ish years, the cult running Mississippi has never come to PA and actually their ordnance they can’t even make it past Tennessee. The cult takes credit for sundry murders and deaths of Pennsylvanians over the years, outside of the borders of PA. They keep doing bad things in Tupelo and go on Shortwave radio threatening The Great Satan that is the Keystone State. For some reason, Tennessee, Louisiana, Arkansas, and Alabama don’t do anything about the cult leaders in Mississippi, although Florida started launching tomahawks from the panhandle recently. That makes me smile.
Meanwhile, in Pennsylvania things are going well. We re-elected governor Tonald Drump, who was a governor before. We have stopped citizens of New Jersey from illegally entering PA. Prices have stabilized. Normalcy has returned. We may actually get some domestic policy changes that we’ve needed for decades, especially if we can hold the Republican majority in Harrisburg.
I heard Florida wants to bomb Mississippi but good. Go for it. But PA won’t send ordnance or men to Tupelo. And I’ll be peeved at Gov Drump if he risks losing all that we have to support Florida.
Again, I appreciate this discussion and remain open to dialogue, I get your points and will continue to ponder them. Thank you.
When we have discourse, it reminds me that people can have valid disagreements about consequential issues at hand. And we can discuss them.
And we can agree or disagree. And I can do that because I think you are sincere in your underpinnings. I often cannot do that with others who I feel are less sincere in those foundations of belief and are instead politically motivated rather than ethically motivated.
Like you, I also subscribe to "Just War" and self-defense. But I have concluded that many humans will rationalize (because rationalization is a mechanism that human beings are fully conditioned to be expert at, as this image below illustrates:
I keep in mind that my ideological opponents all fully believe that whatever God they believe in is with them, even if it was only the silly Pastafarian Flying Spaghetti Monster God. I am trying to find my way to Christ, and it is the consistency I have found in the Bible and Christ that compels me to believe in what Christ stands for, and intellectual consistency that makes Christianity such a fine force for good in this world. It is hard for me to argue against a religion that tells me if I sincerely repent of my sins and believe in my heart that Christ is my Lord and Savior, I could be accepted into heaven where I could theoretically meet the likes of Jeffrey Dahlmer or Barney Frank there.
I have to admit it blows my mind. And in dwelling on it recently, I did find myself praying for Barney Frank, that he might repent of his sins and find Christ.
Because if there is hope for the likes of Barney Frank or Jeffrey Dahlmer-there is hope for me.
The bottom line is, I do believe in the Just War concept and self-defense, but I try to remember everyone else does too.
I am all for subduing Iran because of who they are and what they do. I pray for regular Iranians, because I have known many and Iike them.
We can disagree on whether this move to take down Iran is right or wrong-as I have said, when I discuss it with you and others like you, it puts a governor on my passions...and in no way, in today's world, can I find anything bad about that.
Good talking to you, FRiend. Fight the good fight for what you believe in.