Yeah…I don’t need a self proclaimed “incel” (involuntary celibate), a homosexual inspired group dedicated to the hatred of women, to tell me about Protestantism or Catholicism
Is that Joel Webbon?
The video is actually more about American Christian nationalism.
They do come to the conclusion that we have common enemies: secularism, liberalism, and “the orcs at the gates”
I can’t say I agreed with either “side” - I got bored half-way and then sped it up to 2x and then somewhere later they BOTH went to talking about “ Jewish influence in law and culture”
Webbon (the “Protestant” guy) claims that the “heartbeat” of liberalism is egalitarianism (the push for total equality). He argues this was driven by a Jewish desire to “dismantle and bring down every form of hierarchy” as a means of self-preservation for a minority group.
I think, historically speaking - looking at the 19th century - that he was right. After the French revolution all the “nations” looked around and said “let’s centralize and standardize what it means to be French (no langue d’oc, breton, gascon etc. you all speak Parisian) or English (RP, none of yer Yorkshire or west country dialects)” and “this land is this nations and no one elses’ — that’s when those of the Jewish religion in Europe were stuck. They had 4 options:
1. Assimilate - and many did (with a caveat I’ll point out below * )
2. disassociate and get more “Jewish” - the rise of Hassidism, Orthodox Jewish withdrawal
3. Hey we also have our “land” - let’s perform Aliyah to the mostly empty holy land (only 100K people lived there under Ottoman 19th century - which included Jews, Samaritans, Aramean Christians etc.)
4. Let’s break down ALL the hierarchies - communism.
Fuentes (the Catholic guy) points to Jewish lawyers and organizations (specifically naming the ACLU and ADL) as the primary forces behind ending prayer in schools and enforcing the strict separation of church and state. He argues that these groups viewed any explicit Christian culture as a form of discrimination against them.
I think he is accurate in this
But then Fuentes goes into how Jewish communities “hated organized Christianity” and “Christian kings” because those institutions often marginalized or expelled them. And I must admit that in general this was true - BOTH statements (that they were oppressed and that they hated it)
Fuentes explicitly cites the execution of the Romanov royal family during the Communist revolution in Russia as an act of “vengeance” by Jews who hated the Tsar. I don’t think this is valid based on history.
It is a matter of historical record that individuals of Jewish origin were overrepresented in the early Bolshevik leadership compared to their percentage of the general population. Leon Trotsky, Grigory Zinoviev, Lev Kamenev, and Yakov Sverdlov were of Jewish descent. Yakov Yurovsky, the man who led the squad that executed Tsar Nicholas II and his family in the Ipatiev House, was born into a Jewish family (though he had converted to Lutheranism).
NOW on to my * caveat — one of the books I read 11 years ago - “Hitler’s religion” brought to my attention the strong effect of neo-Darwinism i.e. ‘race theory’ — and using Darwinian language of “survival of the fittest” to the idea of “races”.
Using this neo-Darwinism, a person who, in the 17th century converted from Rabbinical Judaism to Christianity would become a Christian full stop, but in the 19th century, he was still ‘considered a Jew’ racially.
I disagree with the idea put forth by both these guys, but I am unsure if this is just my knee-jerk reaction to any sign of anti-semitism. I need to really research it to be impartial (if one can even be)
Now Jan, you know that historically I hold that:
1. Christianity is a 2nd temple Jewish sect
During the Second Temple period (roughly 516 BC to 70 AD), Judaism was not a monolith; it was a collection of competing sects including the Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, and Zealots.2. what we call Judaism is really "Rabbinical Judaism" - a religion created after 70 AD at the council of Jamnia by Rabbi Yohannan bin Zakkai out of the ashes of the Pharisee 2nd temple Jewish sect.Early followers of Jesus were entirely Jewish, observed Jewish law, and worshipped at the Temple in Jerusalem. In the Book of Acts, they are referred to as "the sect of the Nazarenes."
While the Sadducees (whose power was tied to the Temple) and the Essenes (wiped out during the war) largely disappeared after 70 AD, the "Christians" survived because their theology was portable and less dependent on the physical Temple structure.
This is NOT just my "contention" - historians (Jewish and Christian and secular) have this conclusion as out of the major sects, only the Pharisees and the Christians survived the 70 AD catastrophe with their social structures intact. The Pharisees emphasized the Oral Law and local synagogue study, which allowed them to adapt when the sacrificial system at the Temple was destroyed.so, on to the "The idea of a shared Judeo-Christian foundation is a modern invention that obscures the fundamental opposition between the two faiths."Rabbi Yohanan Ben Zakkai started the "Yavne (Jamnia) Moment." According to tradition, he was smuggled out of the siege of Jerusalem and convinced the Romans to let him establish a school at Yavne. This shifted the focus of Jewish life from Sacrifice to Torah study and Prayer.
THEOLOGICALLY -- this is True -- the followers of the Way of Jesus and the Rabbinical Jews are opposing RIVAL SECTS of Judaism and naturally both hated each other (we see the same between say Sunnis and Shias) -- Rabbinical Judaism codified the Talmud and focused on Halakha (legal practice) in the 8th century. Halakha and the Talmud are fundamentally in opposition to Christian belief and thought. in fact the Halakha and the Talmud were finalized in Bagdad under the Mohamedan dynasties - AT THE SAME TIME THAT THE Hadiths, the Quran and the Sharia were finalized. I do hold that both Rabbinical Jewish and proto-Islamic thoughts fed off each other at that time.
By calling it a "shared foundation," we ignore the fact that Rabbinical Judaism and Christianity were actively defining themselves against each other for 500 years. They are more like parallel evolutions than a straight line from one to the other.
politically - I think there are common points, but on the whole I am inclined to agree that there isn't a "Judea-Christian" common idea